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Stomach stapling operations in the morbidly obese?


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I am on two minds on this one - for those who have put themselves in this situation, we should not be paying for their operations, however for those who obesity is a condition out of their control, then yes I believe that they should be given the opportunity to have an improved quality of life at no extra cost to themselves. My own personal experience with this is that 2 years ago this month my father paid over $10,000 to have his stomach stapled (although it was a different technique than is normally used). He was a diabetic which had been caused through high levels of stress. No dietary methods would help him to lose weight and exercise is very difficult for him due to knee problems, and having no right archilles tendon. Without this operation he probably would not be here today. However, he has now lost about 50kg and his diabetes is no longer present and he has a much improved quality of life. Should his operation have been paid for - YES the condition he had he could not help, god knows he had tried. We pay for most other operations - e.g. bypasses etc when really the people who have them could have prevented them or delayed them by leading a healthier lifestyle! Something more to chew the fat over!

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okay now you got me thinking - okay true, some obesity cases aren't so much just plain overeating/bad diet - but how do we know how it all started?

Is there a way to tell for sure if the obesity is caused by their eating habits or from a certain "disease" or genetic disorder maybe??

I don't personally believe genetics can cause obesity - I think it's from childhood and not being fed right as a kid/teenager which then screws your metabolism.

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Not always true, my fathers obesity developed as an adult. He was obviously overproducing hormones associated with stress, which effected his metabolism and the way his body dealt with insulin/glucose etc Maybe genetics do not play a role in obesity per se but the genetic makeup that you are born with and how you are programmed to respond to situations must play quite a role in the future onset of some health problems. As far as I am aware there is no way to test for such things

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NewsTalk ZB: Should we pay for stomach stapling operations in the morbidly obese?

I'm all for the collapse of all coercive systems, in which case issues like this would not even arise. As it stands though, I don't see why not. If people who could not possibly have avoided their health problems by following some theoretically optimal lifestyle were the only ones treated, most people would not be treated. In any case, if the fatties have been contributing to the system, are they not entitled to receive some return on that no matter what? Also, should the position of not helping people deemed irresponsible be extended to other areas of life? For example, suppose someone goes out for a night on the town alone, gets drunk and while staggering home is raped and murdered. Should the police refuse to investigate the crime on the grounds that the victim's irresponsible behaviour contributed to it and instead only investigate crimes against teetotalers who were tucked up in bed by 9.00 every night, having taken all reasonable precautions for their own safety?

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Well after watching the tv3 program tonight I have to say I have had a complete turn around on this one and agree with the op being performed when requested given that they made some very valid points about the cost for other health and medical related conditions caused by the obesity epidemic which seem to cost more over the years than the $12'000 for the op.

True, folks could eat healthier and they could exercise, but pigs will fly for the vast majority of the population who sadly don't even think about this type of thing. The sad thing is...a lot that do care will go on low calorie diets and just have so much difficulty losing weight, each attempt stuffs their metabolism up even more. Of course thats because they reduced mass as well as fat at each dieting attempt. So consequently they dont have to necessarily be eating more food and doing less exercise when they stop dieting to gain more weight do they? Less mass equals less calories needed, yet they go back to eating the same and doing the same as before? They gain all the fat back PLUS several pounds more due to metabolism dropping.

We could educate people more I guess but for some, they just cannot grasp these things. In the meantime, as they try reverse their predicament they are still being treated for the medical conditions effected by their obesity. Still costs public money.

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and I sometimes think with the dieting mentality, and 99% of failure being will power, that a simple staple in the stomach would solve the problem life long would it? Just think how cut you could get and sucking protein through a straw too. lol.

We're in a society now that does less labour intensive things, and eats more. Playstation, PC's, McDonalds, etc etc.

I can't see the goverment banning that stuff can you? lol

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That man is the same man who performed my fathers operation. He said that Dad was one of the worst cases he has ever seen and he cannpt believe the recovery and quality of life he now has. I remember when Dad first told my Mum she was all against it and said you absolutely can't buy into that kind of thing, but when she met the surgeon she was completely turned round, he is amzing at what he does

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The only thing that concerned me was that the weight loss also meant loss of mass also. Most of the people having the op done appeared to be very thin and gaunt. The problem being no one would have educated them about what type of foods they are best eating to maintain mass and good bone density? Atleast when you slim down yourself and change your diet and lifestyle you are educating yourself in the process about what your body needs. Whereas folks having that op would just not have an idea--and have choice in what they eat. Because they are eating much much less (or are unable to eat as much) then obviously quality foods must be in the little amount that they CAN eat or they would be susceptible to deficiencies. One woman said she felt hungry, but that when she started to eat, she would feel full. Therefore pretty important to get down the right quality stuff in the first few minutes of eating I'd say.

I did wonder, if you go from eating whatever you want and not having to think about there not being room in your stomach, to suddenly not being able to get food down--wouldnt it make you feel as miserable as dieting? But then she said she felt full- which I guess means one feels satieted and happy-not hungry. So it kind of kills two birds with one stone I guess.

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There are certain foods you cannot not eat with the type of surgery he does, Like white bread and pasta are often out due to them sometimes clogging and blocking the hole. Also as the food is bypassing the stomach and going straight to the small intestine it gets absorbed a lot faster - hence can only tolerate alcohol in very small amounts, and things like fat and sugars can only be tolerated in smallish amounts also otherwise you end up vomiting. THerefore it will dictate what kinds of foods you can best eat, and more often than not eliminates the things that people should only be eating in moderation or small amounts anyway

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  • 5 months later...

Hello Tammy

Great to hear that your Dad has done soo well after the stomach stapling but I would have to be one to say NO to it being covered. Was your dad a type 1 or type 2 Diabetic. Type 2 is bad nutrition over many years that causes this - so NO excuse, type 1 is a different story and most born with it and have to supply insulin by injection most days. Type 2 can be controlled by good nutrition, what most doctors find is that from pacific/maori backgrounds who have type 2 will not make a change to their diet to better their situation so end out causing other health problems as well!

I have a client who has had the same surgeory and would not agree with you on it being a life saver! He has continuous problems with food getting stuck or not digesting fast enough. He has to wait at least an hour or more before he can drink anything after eating, giving food time to get through that little hole. He lost a shit load of weight after the operation but that soon plateaued out and it wont shift. He came to me for nutrition and we got more weight off him, actual fat loss, muscle gain by FEEDING him and not denying food. Sad thing is most the food has to be soft or shake form. Its an operation that cant be reversed and I dont think the problems of this stomach stapling is discussed or made aware of with people.

As some of the other posts above against this operation not being covered I agree as it is saying lets cover smoking, alcoholics, and drug addicts. End of the day most of us have a choice how we fuel or what we place in our bodies and as parent you choose as a role model to your child how you wish them to have quality of life. To me there is NO EXCUSES, no one forces us to eat a Big Mac - by the way a MacDonalds burger can stay fairly well preserved for two years, yuck. Digest that!!

Best of Health

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Interesting this topic should come back up again today. This evening's Face To Face with Kim Hill was about stomach stapling. Unfortunately I only saw the end of it. Did anyone else watch the show?

BTW, tomorrow on TV2 there's a doco called Supersize Kids.

Screens Thursday October 13 at 8.30pm

This observational special follows the emotional journeys of three overweight girls at different ages.

What happens if by the time you're a teenager you've failed at every diet and your health is at risk? The radical solution is surgery. Bethany is only six years old but weighs over six stone and is clinically obese. Her mum doesn't know what to do. Helen is sixteen and at nearly 24 stone is dangerously overweight - at Bethany's age she weighed the same as her.

And Naomi grew up as a fat kid gaining weight at the same rate until one day she was told her life was at risk and she embarked on a rigorous regime of diet and exercise. Now as a slim 22 year old, after losing over eight stone, she faces extensive surgery to remove masses of excess skin hanging around her waist. Can she really rebuild her body and start to live again? And how will Helen and her overweight mother Julia fare after they both take the drastic measure of undergoing major surgery to reduce the size of their stomachs?

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Fem Muscles

Dad was a type 2 diabetic although he was injecting himself with insulin as he was a very bad case. It was believed he had probably had diabetes for baout 10 years before he was diagnosed with it. His diabetes was primarily by stress in regards to job situation in conjunction with several other hereditory conditions. So yes although type 2 diabetes can be prevented it makes it very hard when you are in a job situation that causes high stress levels etc which as I'm sure you know the hormone responses behind it increases glucose in the blood. And funnily enough the majority of the weight that he put on came after he was diagnosed! Having done a nutrition degree we tried really hard to get him to lose weigh even to the extent where in my varsity holidays I would prepare all of his meals so that I knew exactly what he was eatin and the most he was ever able to lose was 10kg. So in some cases their are underlying factors.

In regards to having a normal quality of life and being able to eat, the only things he struggles with are white bread, pasta and rice. Some things like creamy thai/indian curries he can't eat anymore as they are too rich and high in fat but other than that he has a relatively normal food consumption and can eat and drink at the same time. He is still able to eat a decent amount of food which he finds important as he travels a lot and it would cause too many questions if he was eating extremely abnormally.

At the end of the day I think that the success of such an operation also boils down to the surgeon one has, the type of stapling that it performed and the mindset of the person having the surgery. If Dad hadn't had it it is very unlikely that he would be here today.

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Kenzie Chic

Sounds like your Dad is very lucky to have a daughter who tryed so hard to make things easier for him by preparing his meals. With concerns on his job being high stress, we always have a choice, is risking your health to work extra hours etc worth it. We choose how we deal with stress and we are all very indiviual and how we deal emotionally with things. I changed a high stress job that yeah earned more money, but end of day wasnt worth it and now I have a job teaching and helping others. You talk of hormones, and stress being a factor with your Dads case of type 2 diabete's - ever think because of the stress he brought upon himself that his iummne system is what is failing him which cause's everything else to break down? What a university degree teaches you when it comes to Nutrition doesnt mean its RIGHT, keep changing your fathers nutrition and experimenting - this is where it will keep working. I have meet many top Nutrition experts who still know nothing and dont pratcice what they preach - maybe cause its wrong.

Keep up the good work with your father and best health to you both :)

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