Jump to content
NZ's bodybuilding, strength and fitness community

Recommended Posts

Newby question: what is the reason to cycle with steroids? I suspect it is to give the body a chance tonrecover natural production after having artificially increasing testosterone levels in the body. I have been placed on TRT and have a reandron injection every 3 months to bring my Test levels to within the 'normal' range... would taking reandron every two months to boost my Test levels even higher be beneficial to body building?

And what are the negatives to 'higher than 'normal'  levels of Test for extended periods, rather than cycle on and off be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jeepfanatixs said:

Newby question: what is the reason to cycle with steroids? I suspect it is to give the body a chance to recover natural production after having artificially increasing testosterone levels in the body. I have been placed on TRT and have a reandron injection every 3 months to bring my Test levels to within the 'normal' range... would taking reandron every two months to boost my Test levels even higher be beneficial to body building?

And what are the negatives to 'higher than 'normal'  levels of Test for extended periods, rather than cycle on and off be?

 

There's a couple of reasons, cost can be prohibitive to some people.

Health, as myocardium tends to thicken with over use, plus many other endocrine mediated effects due to downregulation of GnRH, LH, FSH, plus effects of excess androgens on estrogen and DHT mediated tissues. etc...

 

I have my reservations on Reandron's initial high dose regime, I personally would inject less over a shorter time frame..

Yes, increasing the frequency would induce a greater response from skeletal muscle, (if exercise and diet were on point) but as stated I'd probably inject less but more frequently to avoid the initial high plasma spike post injection..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Daz69 said:

 

There's a couple of reasons, cost can be prohibitive to some people.

Health, as myocardium tends to thicken with over use, plus many other endocrine mediated effects due to downregulation of GnRH, LH, FSH, plus effects of excess androgens on estrogen and DHT mediated tissues. etc...

 

I have my reservations on Reandron's initial high dose regime, I personally would inject less over a shorter time frame..

Yes, increasing the frequency would induce a greater response from skeletal muscle, (if exercise and diet were on point) but as stated I'd probably inject less but more frequently to avoid the initial high plasma spike post injection..

As always, thank you for the response and great advice! If the recommended dose of reandron is 4ml every 3 months, what would you suggest as 'less, but more frequent'?

 

Assuming 4ml over 3 months to put me within the 'normal' range, would suggest 1.3 ml every month, or 0.325 ml every week.

If I injected 0.5 ml per week then it would equate to a 50% increase,  Would that be in line with what you suggesting?

 

I am awaiting blood results for mid cycle (1.5 months) of standard dosage of 4ml reandron and should have the results next week which should help in calculating total dosage to at least get me towards the higher side of the range (8.3-29nmol/L for my age)

 

Again, thank you for the advice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 24/08/2021 at 2:45 PM, Jeepfanatixs said:

As always, thank you for the response and great advice! If the recommended dose of reandron is 4ml every 3 months, what would you suggest as 'less, but more frequent'?

 

Assuming 4ml over 3 months to put me within the 'normal' range, would suggest 1.3 ml every month, or 0.325 ml every week.

If I injected 0.5 ml per week then it would equate to a 50% increase,  Would that be in line with what you suggesting?

 

I am awaiting blood results for mid cycle (1.5 months) of standard dosage of 4ml reandron and should have the results next week which should help in calculating total dosage to at least get me towards the higher side of the range (8.3-29nmol/L for my age)

 

Again, thank you for the advice!

 

https://resources.bayer.com.au/resources/uploads/pi/file9425.pdf

 

I have always had my reservations about the chart supplied on page 3.

 

Bayer state: "testosterone levels are detected in blood after one day". The graph shows blood testosterone levels at day 7, we know from previous studies on testosterone esters, blood testosterone levels are detectable after 1-2 hours, increasing to a high plasma peak somewhere between 1-2 days before it starts to decline (dependent upon the ester)..

We know the higher the initial peak the greater the metabolism to DHT, and estrogen, with subsequent side effect associated.. (in some people)...

With the current Reandron data we don't know how high that initial peak is as they have cleverly hidden that information by only testing at day 7..

 

If you are currently undergoing blood tests with your Endocrinologist, it would be wise to NOT increase the dose, as this will show abnormally high blood plasma concentrations, therefore he will likely reduce your dose or increase the injection spacings so they are further apart..

If not under supervision of an Endo, and able to inject yourself without your Endo requiring blood tests in the future, then dose and injection frequency is up to you...

 

Reandron is 4ml consisting of 250mg of testosterone per 1ml.. When the ester weight is removed you end up with 157.9mg of testosterone per 1ml, or 631.5mg per 4ml...

 

Because Bayer only measure from day 7, we know from other pharmacokinetic profiles blood testosterone levels would likely have been much higher (how high we don't know).. This is relevant in determining the correct half life, and thus a guide on your dose and injection frequency.. (I hope you understand)..

 

Bayer state a half life of 53 days, I personally think its closer to 40 days...

 

My concern is 631.5mg seems a very high initial dose to begin with... The undecanoate ester is 11 carbons so release into the blood will be slower than shorter esters, but expect an initial high spike at 4ml...

 

Maybe try 1ml every 7 days, this should over time increase blood plasma levels to higher than the Bayer study data at about 4-6 weeks.. Monitor blood plasma results at 1 month, then at 2 months, to see what is happening, monitor any side effects..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

https://resources.bayer.com.au/resources/uploads/pi/file9425.pdf

 

I have always had my reservations about the chart supplied on page 3.

 

Bayer state: "testosterone levels are detected in blood after one day". The graph shows blood testosterone levels at day 7, we know from previous studies on testosterone esters, blood testosterone levels are detectable after 1-2 hours, increasing to a high plasma peak somewhere between 1-2 days before it starts to decline (dependent upon the ester)..

We know the higher the initial peak the greater the metabolism to DHT, and estrogen, with subsequent side effect associated.. (in some people)...

With the current Reandron data we don't know how high that initial peak is as they have cleverly hidden that information by only testing at day 7..

 

If you are currently undergoing blood tests with your Endocrinologist, it would be wise to NOT increase the dose, as this will show abnormally high blood plasma concentrations, therefore he will likely reduce your dose or increase the injection spacings so they are further apart..

If not under supervision of an Endo, and able to inject yourself without your Endo requiring blood tests in the future, then dose and injection frequency is up to you...

 

Reandron is 4ml consisting of 250mg of testosterone per 1ml.. When the ester weight is removed you end up with 157.9mg of testosterone per 1ml, or 631.5mg per 4ml...

 

Because Bayer only measure from day 7, we know from other pharmacokinetic profiles blood testosterone levels would likely have been much higher (how high we don't know).. This is relevant in determining the correct half life, and thus a guide on your dose and injection frequency.. (I hope you understand)..

 

Bayer state a half life of 53 days, I personally think its closer to 40 days...

 

My concern is 631.5mg seems a very high initial dose to begin with... The undecanoate ester is 11 carbons so release into the blood will be slower than shorter esters, but expect an initial high spike at 4ml...

 

Maybe try 1ml every 7 days, this should over time increase blood plasma levels to higher than the Bayer study data at about 4-6 weeks.. Monitor blood plasma results at 1 month, then at 2 months, to see what is happening, monitor any side effects..

Thank you Dan, 

After a very long fight with doctors and endocrinologists in NZ, I was eventually diagnosed with hypogonadism. 

A lot has happened since then and I have not been working out for a few years since that diagnosis. 

Currently with a new doctor who is trying to get an understanding of where my T levels are, so am following the recommended dosage while he is ordering tests.

Due to lockdowns, I am unable to get to gym, so it suits me, and this 'research' is an attempt to understand and devise a regimen for when I am able to get to gym again.  (Might have to put a home gym together again :)

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my queries,  I will keep you updated with the progress. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following my previous posts.

T level measured in at a good 29nmol/L

At half cycle of 4ml of Reandron 1000 every 12 weeks.

This puts me at the top end of the 'normal' range.

Thank you Daz or your input, I will continue this treatment now on smaller, weekly injections with consideration to possibly injecting twice a week in order to reduce the massive peaks and troughs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now




×