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warrenbeattie

Test Prop

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Hi everyone.

Just wondering what thoughts are on test prop only cylcle for 10 weeks at 400mg per week (2 pins at 200mg) for 1st cycle. Gymming 4-5 nights a week. Body fat still needs to come down a bit but diet going well. 31yo. I had read higher body fat could give more chance of estrogen. Allso thoughts on PCT vs tapering appreciated  and if gyno would be an issue on a lower dose.

Thanks.

Mike.

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Hi when I talk about test propionate, test suspension and test no-ester etc I prefer to go off daily or eod dosings rather than a weekly amount as it is a short ester. With test prop you would be better off using slightly lower dosages and taking them more frequently than what you are thinking  200mg twice a week is quite a dose one day  followed by nothing for a few days. That is an injection schedule suited more to a longer ester such as enanthate or cypionate. I suggest using one of those esters for the fact that it will be easier to keep your hormones more stable and when you finish they essentially taper off nicely by themselves. If you are set on test prop I suggest 150mg eod which will give you around 600mg per week. That’s going to be a good dose for you.

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Apart from that, the leaner you can get before you start the better. And gyno can always be an issue. Better to have tamoxifen and not need it. Than to need it and not be able to get it.

 

Good luck.

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Hi mate thanks for the tips. That makes sense on the 150 eod. What are your thoughts on tapering after 12 weeks? I know everybodys differnt but in your opinion would gyno be likely on a dose of 600mg per week. Will be making sure all meds are on hand before begining of cycle as still need to drop some more fat and tighten diet up a little more before starting

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I’d finish the cycle with a short simple taper. Don’t over think it.

 

Honestly some people can run 2000mg of test and not get any signs of gyno others will get a flare up off 200mg. It’s the same as some people having clear skin and others being covered in oily acne from their cycle.

 

who knows until you do it. I would say the fatter you are the higher the probability of getting gyno.

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46 minutes ago, Realtalk said:

Why are you so set on test propionate?

Well i have no preference for the propionate in particular but that is whats available to me at the moment. I have never done a cycle so i couldnt say i rather prop over test e for example but if it was test e that was available id say that would be my 1st cycle. I had heard the prop is allso faster acting not that that made me more keen on it. Id probably rather a longer ester so as not pinning every 2nd day

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Test prop is quite short acting for eod, your best to 

go with test phenylpropionate, slightly longer and best suited to EOD.

 

Would use test ace over test prop too, less injection pain. 

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On 13/10/2019 at 4:36 PM, AASBandit said:

Why taper? Youre wasting your gear lowering doses at the end of a cycle, if anything you want to be increasing. Lowering your dose wont recover your hPTA, I see no point at all. Why not just run full dose the whole cycle, stop, run a SERM. 

 

The theory behind tapering off end of cycle is to lower estrogen, as it metabolises at a slower rate that testosterone, leaving you potentially too estrogen dominant...

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1 hour ago, AASBandit said:

Ah, ok. I guess I can see the methodology to that if youre not using an AI whilst cycling/blasting, or a SERM as PCT. 

 

An AI is sometimes recommended in the last few weeks end of cycle, to lower aromatisation, especially if the cycle was quite a high dose..

PCT is kinda pointless in most cases, unless the cycle is quite high, generally consisting of a HPTA highly suppressive compound  such as nandrolone or trenbolone..

Damage to leydig and sertoli cells is generally accepted as being done on-cycle  via R.O.S, no amount of PCT drugs can reverse damaged or dead cells...

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11 hours ago, AASBandit said:

Dead or damaged cells aside...I agree with the status-quo reasoning that using a SERM post-cycle will tend to be preferrable over using nothing at all, in terms of effectively and efficiently restoring maximal hPTA function. 

 

Most guys who are "hPTA normal and healthy" before they cycle, will be experiencing secondary hypogonadism when they do cycle. SERMs can obviously be effective treatments for this condition. 

 

If leydig, and or sertoli cells are damaged or dead no amount of hypothalamic stimulation will do any good..

Science is telling us the address the issue on-cycle, rather than wait till its too late...

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2 hours ago, AASBandit said:

Dude, youre stating the obvious. Of course if cells are damaged or killed off on-cycle no SERM will revive them. SERMs are for revivable cells and systems. By all means, take your hcg or whatever on-cycle to minimise cell damage...but youre talking primary issues here, at the testes. Revivable, recoverable on-cycle shutdown occurs in the secondary sense, in the brain. Which is precisely what a SERM will correct post-cycle.

 

Now, as you alluded to earlier, AAS like nandrolones are toxic to the testes, potentially causing irreparable damage no doubt. But the conclusion from all this "well SERMs are a waste of time" is ridiculous. Secondary hypogonadism can be corrected by SERMs. Most early-stage steroid users will be suffering secondary hypo, NOT primary. So, a SERM will be the best help post-cycle.

 

Unless you get tests done to ascertain permanent testicular damage (what average gym-rat will do that??) then there are good rational reason to play the odds in your favour, make some hopeful assumptions...and use a SERM post-cycle.

 

I'll state the obvious again: Most AAS users seem to recover just fine as exogenous testosterone lowers to physiological levels, research has shown LH and FSH levels increase post cycle, indicating in most cases the hypothalamic stimuli isn't generally the problem..

The research [of which I have previously posted extensively on here] clearly shows LH and FSH levels don't seem to be the problem, the signal is getting through, but the problem is resultant testicular damage..

No amount of SERM usage can bring back dead tissue once dead..

 

Excess LH & FSH stimulation has its own pathophysiological issues..

 

hCG can further induce testicular damage, as the extra testosterone metabolises to estrogen, excess oxidative radicals create a toxic cellular environment in sertoli and leydig cells, resulting in cell death...

 

Antioxidant therapy has been shown to protect against oxidative damage on-cycle..  

 

When 3 month on 3 month off cycles were popular before blast/cruise stupidity occurred, dealers had no income in your off time..

Some bright spark thought up PCT to induce further revenue from the uneducated..

 

I don't doubt SERM's can trigger hypothalamic action, the research is quite clear it does, but what I am saying is the hypothalamus will restart as soon as exogenous test leaves the body, and estrogen returns to physiological levels.. So why waste your money, if it does it anyway..

 

Don't believe the hype, the body will recover just fine post cycle if you look after it on-cycle, by keeping the dose sensible, minimising harsher suppressive compounds, and employing sufficient antioxidants.. 

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