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Edzel

To cycle or not to?

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Hello everyone,
I am new around so nice to meet you all! I am 21/m/72kg/1.72m/bf~11-12%, been training hard for the past 2 years, on and off since i was 17.
Training was mainly calisthenics when i first started, then transitioned to SL 5x5 then 3x5 and now a mixture of both StrongLifts and bodyweight training.


I am considering doing my first basic test cycle @500mg per week -tempted with the mood, psychological, strength gain. Plan is for a 1 cycle only and then maintain and keep training natty.
I have been doing plenty of reading on cycles and logs, etc since a few years ago but I decided to wait until I have plateaued. There's definitely much more to learn however so I wouldn't say that I have know it all.

So i ordered a lab test for pre cycle level. Test came back (very) high at 32.7nmol/L (ref range 9.0-25.0).
Now i am confused, if I already have high test to begin with then there is there a point that i start cycling?
I'm however not making much(if any) gains these days. Diet has admittedly not been perfect but I try to hit 2500-3000cal and 100-150g protein every day.
Goal is to gain mass and strength while maintaining calisthenics strength.

Would appreciate advice from the community. Thanks!

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Bro i sooooo love the "plan is for 1 cycle only".  once you go to the dark side theres no turning back! 

 

Your young stay away from the gear, eat more, train more, it will all come together in good time.

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21 hours ago, kiwicannon said:

Bro i sooooo love the "plan is for 1 cycle only".  once you go to the dark side theres no turning back! 

 

Your young stay away from the gear, eat more, train more, it will all come together in good time.


hahaha yeah hard. How many people I know that've done only '1 cycle'. 

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1 hour ago, ratz99 said:


hahaha yeah hard. How many people I know that've done only '1 cycle'. 

0

yeah bro I'm sure i said that like 20yrs ago hahaha

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Your diet sounds like conplete shit. 100g of protein isn't a lot. Hence the 72kg I'd guess. No point fucking your endocrine system if you're just pissing around.

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Dude you should totally ride it out natty for as long as you can. Your natural test levels are insanely high! I wouldn’t want to mess with that. You’re really lucky imo 🤙

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On 9/08/2018 at 1:58 PM, Edzel said:

I'm however not making much(if any) gains these days.

Over what time period? Gains do come slower the further you progress. Patience is the key in this game!

On 9/08/2018 at 1:58 PM, Edzel said:

Diet has admittedly not been perfect but I try to hit 2500-3000cal and 100-150g protein every day.

As PETN says, you probably need to eat more. Shoot for more like 200g of protein, and increase the calories until you slowly start gaining weight. (And make sure it's a nice slow weight gain, otherwise you're just getting unnecessarily fat.)

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18 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

Over what time period? Gains do come slower the further you progress. Patience is the key in this game!

As PETN says, you probably need to eat more. Shoot for more like 200g of protein, and increase the calories until you slowly start gaining weight. (And make sure it's a nice slow weight gain, otherwise you're just getting unnecessarily fat.)

Over the past 6 months. I have went from 68kg to 69~70kg-ish with almost no strength gain although i already try to eat as much as i can.

Since the day i posted this question though(been 1 month), I have gained an  additional ~2kg(of bodyweight, not only lean mass i might have gain much fat as well although in the mirror im about the same leanness) and more noticeable strength gain.
I realised because of my shit high metabolism it is very difficult to gain with just semi clean diet. What i did change was simply adding 2-3 of those indomie instant noodles to my current diet most days of the week. 1 pack=~400cals. Boy does it works lol. Definitely about the calories in calories out after all.

Decided that I agree with all the advice here so thanks for the feedback. Will give myself more time before i hopped on the real thing. Still tempted though not gonna lie.

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15 hours ago, Edzel said:

Over the past 6 months. I have went from 68kg to 69~70kg-ish with almost no strength gain although i already try to eat as much as i can.

Since the day i posted this question though(been 1 month), I have gained an  additional ~2kg(of bodyweight, not only lean mass i might have gain much fat as well although in the mirror im about the same leanness) and more noticeable strength gain.
I realised because of my shit high metabolism it is very difficult to gain with just semi clean diet. What i did change was simply adding 2-3 of those indomie instant noodles to my current diet most days of the week. 1 pack=~400cals. Boy does it works lol. Definitely about the calories in calories out after all.

 

Not to be rude, but Why the f*ck would you eat those noodles? They are full of absolute shite and have fuckall nutritional value. You'd be better off adding 150grams wholegrain oats a day?

No ones metabolism is that high that it's hard to eat enough to gain weight. That myth in metabolism disparity between people is talked up so much. Unless you have one of those disorders which i highly doubt you don't, you just don't eat enough (and proper food) to gain enough mass.

 

Ditch those shitty noodles and eat some real food. 100g oats is like 300cals. Just do it.

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20 minutes ago, ratz99 said:

 

Not to be rude, but Why the f*ck would you eat those noodles? They are full of absolute shite and have fuckall nutritional value. You'd be better off adding 150grams wholegrain oats a day?

No ones metabolism is that high that it's hard to eat enough to gain weight. That myth in metabolism disparity between people is talked up so much. Unless you have one of those disorders which i highly doubt you don't, you just don't eat enough (and proper food) to gain enough mass.

 

Ditch those shitty noodles and eat some real food. 100g oats is like 300cals. Just do it.

Agreed man.

I'm not saying my metabolism is very high to the point that i cant gain. It is high enough that my appetite just won't catch up to make up for the surplus needed. Eating semi-clean as much has i do now(estimated ~2600cals) is already a chore and it turns out that i am still only eating in maintenance(because my weight is not bulging). It just happens that 2-3 packs of those are not as fulfilling and an easy way to add in~1000cals to my diet. And cheap too.

My diet otherwise are mainly rotating chicken+rice or pasta+mince or egg+toast all day. Not the strictest but I do try to avoid processed food hence the semi clean.

Definitely not ideal and the plan is to gradually sub the noodle for some real food as  I adapt to this new high calorie appetite. 

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6 hours ago, Edzel said:

Agreed man.

I'm not saying my metabolism is very high to the point that i cant gain. It is high enough that my appetite just won't catch up to make up for the surplus needed.

Fair bro, you gotta stuff it in haha. It can be hard at first I must admit.

Wish I could bulk on 2600 though lmao. I'm cutting on 2800 :blink: 

Edit: Misread sorry, your maintenance is 2600. 

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10 hours ago, ratz99 said:

 

Not to be rude, but Why the f*ck would you eat those noodles? They are full of absolute shite and have fuckall nutritional value. You'd be better off adding 150grams wholegrain oats a day?

No ones metabolism is that high that it's hard to eat enough to gain weight. That myth in metabolism disparity between people is talked up so much. Unless you have one of those disorders which i highly doubt you don't, you just don't eat enough (and proper food) to gain enough mass.

 

Ditch those shitty noodles and eat some real food. 100g oats is like 300cals. Just do it.

 

Wholegrain anything might not be considered healthy anymore.. 

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17 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

Wholegrain anything might not be considered healthy anymore.. 

Mind to elaborate? Might be interested.

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7 hours ago, Edzel said:

Mind to elaborate? Might be interested.

 

As a species we evolved for over 2 million years without grains, 12,000 years ago humans averaged over 6' in height with a brain size 15% bigger than today with perfect teeth..

With the advent of fixed settlement farming practices 10,000 years ago mainly incorporating grain crops, average height reduced to 4'-10", brain size shrunk 15% and our teeth started to rot..

Plants produce highly toxic proteins called lectins to deter animal predators from eating them, whole grains are particularly high in lectins..

Modern research might suggest whole grains might not be as healthy as previously thought..

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23 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

As a species we evolved for over 2 million years without grains, 12,000 years ago humans averaged over 6' in height with a brain size 15% bigger than today with perfect teeth..

With the advent of fixed settlement farming practices 10,000 years ago mainly incorporating grain crops, average height reduced to 4'-10", brain size shrunk 15% and our teeth started to rot..

Plants produce highly toxic proteins called lectins to deter animal predators from eating them, whole grains are particularly high in lectins..

Modern research might suggest whole grains might not be as healthy as previously thought..

Wow. That makes so much sense. You just blew my mind 😳

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On 9/12/2018 at 10:21 AM, Edzel said:

Agreed man.

I'm not saying my metabolism is very high to the point that i cant gain. It is high enough that my appetite just won't catch up to make up for the surplus needed. 

Have you looked into supplementing with Whey and Maltodextrin? May not be everyone’s cup of tea but it works great for me. Makes it a lot easier to meet my calorie requirements. And it’s liquid calories, so not too filling either = more room for food! 👍

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On 9/13/2018 at 5:22 AM, Daz69 said:

 

As a species we evolved for over 2 million years without grains, 12,000 years ago humans averaged over 6' in height with a brain size 15% bigger than today with perfect teeth..

With the advent of fixed settlement farming practices 10,000 years ago mainly incorporating grain crops, average height reduced to 4'-10", brain size shrunk 15% and our teeth started to rot..

Plants produce highly toxic proteins called lectins to deter animal predators from eating them, whole grains are particularly high in lectins..

Modern research might suggest whole grains might not be as healthy as previously thought..

 

Nice, as somebody in the nutrition field, who has studied this extensively, I can say that Daz is right on the money. There are more nutrients in whole grains (i.e. magnesium, calcium, copper, B vitamins, zinc, etc), however because of the high anti-nutrient content (phytates and lectins for example), poor absorption of nutrients in whole grains, and the poorer digestion in general (compared to refined grains), modern research is suggesting that there is a net-loss in nutrition, especially in mineral status. Refined grains such as white flour, white rice, etc, are neutral, and thus not harmful, especially when balanced with other macro nutrients to slow the spike in blood sugar. The best carbs to consume are well-cooked tubers/potatoes and soft easily digestible fruits. Not only are they nutritionally superior, but they are more easy to digest and don't contain anti-nutrients like whole grains do. And if you are going to eat grains, do like the Asians do and consume them refined. Not all refined foods are bad, and in many ways improve health. 

 

Slowly, there is a body of scientific literature suggesting that we should be consuming foods that are easy on digestion, foods that do not result in gas and bloating. Eating starchy foods that have not been processed or cooked enough, results in less cellulose or amylopectin breakdown, and makes it harder for our digestive systems to process and extract the nutrients. In addition, this decreases intestinal transit time, allowing food to sit in our small intestine for longer than desirable, which research shows can result in the inappropriate persorption of allergenic proteins as well as increase the proliferation of lipoploysaccharides in the bloodstream by the excess production of endotoxin from bacteria. 

 

The goal then, should be to consume a diet that is easily digestible, and that results in BMs that are frequent and pleasant. Fully cooking food will help this process along. It is no surprise that many anthropologists believe that cooking made us human. The advent of cooking corresponds the the increase in brain size and development as a species. 

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