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Notabodybuilder

low test. and HRT

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Oh well, injection number two yesterday, seemed to go ok. Only things happening is my sleep seems a bit more disturbed with very vivid dreams and nightsweats, and seeming to have to pee a bit more frequently at night. Muscle twitches and jolts when falling asleep too, have experienced all those before when coming up and down off other meds interestingly. Still sweating like nothing else too at odd times.

Had an interesting catch up with my GP too, she seems to think the endo. has started me on quite a low dose, but there's nothing wrong with that. Said in her experience people she has seen undertaking TRT nothing even starts working for a month or two, but generally has a good outcome once starts working. Also other issues could be side-effects of effexor, which I'm wondering if testesterone could be contributing to. Interesting times, will keep updating on progress

Hope everyone else is doing ok :-)

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On 2/1/2018 at 6:40 PM, Daz69 said:

 

You're unlikely to get more frequent than every 2 weeks unfortunately, unless you have some medical background and can put a good case forward for more frequent injections..

There is conversion in adipose tissue, so low bf% works in your favour, there is conversion in other tissues, especially testes that are prone to damage via R.O.S, so supplementation with taurine and royal jelly would be prudent to avoid further shutdown issues..

The shortest ester (propionate) has a half life of as little as 0.8 day, and detectable in blood after about 2 hours, so expect about 10-12mg in the first day..

Hi there everybody, just a quick catch-up after third 125mg fortnightly shot. Still feeling pretty mediocre have to say (crap, in other words). Still only into my fifth week though. I'm also wondering if anyone else has experienced excessive sweating on sustanon?  I hope it clears up after time, makes it really uncomfortable doing anything out in the heat. Will be interesting getting my bloods after next shot in a weeks time. I suspect I will still be quite low, if not lower. If that's the case might contact the endo and see i there is anyway to boost it, or maybe go on the reardron sooner. Interesting times. Hope everyone else is all good.

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Hi Mate, had similar experiences to you. Patches and gels and the kitchen sink thrown at me. Reandron didnt agree with me but i understand the concept of it being 1 shot for 3months. First 7-10 ok but all downhill from there. Sustanon worked the best. But needs to be addressed when im back on as based on a host of reasons the fortnightly shot came with peaks and troughs. Cant say ive had any hot flushes. I had flushes with low t. Been off trt a while now about 12weeks. Flushes have started again amongst other issues and of course all the low t symptoms have started again. From my experience getting onto sus was a major journey in getting my endo to agree to try after failing with other methods. Frequency is still an issue though as a bi-weekly shot of 125mg sus would most likely work best in my case and keeping me balanced. Problem being in the doctors rooms that often getting shots gets expensive time off work as well but also their not being supportive of self administration. 

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13 hours ago, Notabodybuilder said:

Hi there everybody, just a quick catch-up after third 125mg fortnightly shot. Still feeling pretty mediocre have to say (crap, in other words). Still only into my fifth week though. I'm also wondering if anyone else has experienced excessive sweating on sustanon?  I hope it clears up after time, makes it really uncomfortable doing anything out in the heat. Will be interesting getting my bloods after next shot in a weeks time. I suspect I will still be quite low, if not lower. If that's the case might contact the endo and see i there is anyway to boost it, or maybe go on the reardron sooner. Interesting times. Hope everyone else is all good.

 

It's fairly common on AAS for some people, can't think of the mechanism behind it..

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17 hours ago, Biggerbythedaynz said:

Hi Mate, had similar experiences to you. Patches and gels and the kitchen sink thrown at me. Reandron didnt agree with me but i understand the concept of it being 1 shot for 3months. First 7-10 ok but all downhill from there. Sustanon worked the best. But needs to be addressed when im back on as based on a host of reasons the fortnightly shot came with peaks and troughs. Cant say ive had any hot flushes. I had flushes with low t. Been off trt a while now about 12weeks. Flushes have started again amongst other issues and of course all the low t symptoms have started again. From my experience getting onto sus was a major journey in getting my endo to agree to try after failing with other methods. Frequency is still an issue though as a bi-weekly shot of 125mg sus would most likely work best in my case and keeping me balanced. Problem being in the doctors rooms that often getting shots gets expensive time off work as well but also their not being supportive of self administration. 

wow, sounds like a full on  journey for you, did the patches and gels just not work for you? Or was it more about the side-effects? All i can do is stick with the sust. for now, and hope things improve in time.  Only  just into my 6th week. Nothing simple about this business is there. Hope you get a better outcome soon.

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9 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

It's fairly common on AAS for some people, can't think of the mechanism behind it..

Thanks for that. From what you have heard does it settle down in time? Or only when you stop the taking the test?

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1 hour ago, Notabodybuilder said:

wow, sounds like a full on  journey for you, did the patches and gels just not work for you? Or was it more about the side-effects? All i can do is stick with the sust. for now, and hope things improve in time.  Only  just into my 6th week. Nothing simple about this business is there. Hope you get a better outcome soon.

Thanks mate, been 3years and a bit now. Only started making progress thanks to Daz's schooling on here. Gels werent effective plus risk of transfer to my toddler, patches side effects were an issue causing welts despite being annoying. Andriol caps were a nightmare especially with travel to Oz for work through customs. Even with a script its a near miss for a cavity search coz they dont believe you dont have a stash of extra add ons. 😂 only excess baggage im carrying is emotional estrogenic sides! Lol good luck mate. 

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4 hours ago, Notabodybuilder said:

Thanks for that. From what you have heard does it settle down in time? Or only when you stop the taking the test?

 

from memory things settle down in time.. plus you're on a pretty low dose, i'm surprised you are effected.. 

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2 hours ago, Biggerbythedaynz said:

Thanks mate, been 3years and a bit now. Only started making progress thanks to Daz's schooling on here. Gels werent effective plus risk of transfer to my toddler, patches side effects were an issue causing welts despite being annoying. Andriol caps were a nightmare especially with travel to Oz for work through customs. Even with a script its a near miss for a cavity search coz they dont believe you dont have a stash of extra add ons. 😂 only excess baggage im carrying is emotional estrogenic sides! Lol good luck mate. 

 

What's your BF%..? What course of treatment are you currently on for the estrogenic side effects, if you don't mind me asking..

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Hiya Daz, im off everything now, trying to restore fertility, seeing a reproductive specialiast on high dose clomiphene only at present. Im predisposed to high estrogen value, bodyfat was 21% at last check. Estro was 427 about 8 weeks ago but has been  increasing over prior 3 tests. Soon as the boys are back and a bubba on the way ill get back on trt etc... not taking anything for e2 as they wont give me anything for it. Not being a drain on the public system either im paying cash and at private specialists to avoid waiting times etc... reckon an aromasin eod would have me in a better place. Trying to drop bf% lethargy depression and anxiety to the max at moment takes courage to get out of bed in the am. Test was 6.7 end january then 4.8 at end feb. Diet is clean manage my caloric intake vs protein appropriately etc.. but them love handles and man boobs man lol. Will be back on the bus and on top of things again soon hopefully and regain some normality, then its just sorting test dose and frequency and some e2 management. OP- not hijacking your post mate,but all this stuff will give you insights to what youre in for. Also if planning on having kids try get some swimmers frozen for a later date just in case you fry those leydig and sertoli cells Daz is always warning us about.  Loads of homework as it seems our endos arent as 'jacked' as wed like to think when it comes to this stuff. Id still be up the creek without a paddle if it werent for our resident gymnation forum specialist ;) 

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14 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

from memory things settle down in time.. plus you're on a pretty low dose, i'm surprised you are effected.. 

to be honest, it's hard to know how much of it is pre-existing, fibromyalgia and depression probably means I'm already sensitized to any changes, the old central nervous system feels is a bit out of whack to start with which I doubt will be helping.

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14 hours ago, Biggerbythedaynz said:

Hiya Daz, im off everything now, trying to restore fertility, seeing a reproductive specialiast on high dose clomiphene only at present. Im predisposed to high estrogen value, bodyfat was 21% at last check. Estro was 427 about 8 weeks ago but has been  increasing over prior 3 tests. Soon as the boys are back and a bubba on the way ill get back on trt etc... not taking anything for e2 as they wont give me anything for it. Not being a drain on the public system either im paying cash and at private specialists to avoid waiting times etc... reckon an aromasin eod would have me in a better place. Trying to drop bf% lethargy depression and anxiety to the max at moment takes courage to get out of bed in the am. Test was 6.7 end january then 4.8 at end feb. Diet is clean manage my caloric intake vs protein appropriately etc.. but them love handles and man boobs man lol. Will be back on the bus and on top of things again soon hopefully and regain some normality, then its just sorting test dose and frequency and some e2 management. OP- not hijacking your post mate,but all this stuff will give you insights to what youre in for. Also if planning on having kids try get some swimmers frozen for a later date just in case you fry those leydig and sertoli cells Daz is always warning us about.  Loads of homework as it seems our endos arent as 'jacked' as wed like to think when it comes to this stuff. Id still be up the creek without a paddle if it werent for our resident gymnation forum specialist ;) 

 

You need to drastically lower that bf%, 10-12% would be optimum, look into time restricted eating:

 

I've been following a time restricted protocol for the last 4-5 months bf% is about 8%, and feel much healthier.. as described in the video, water only when not eating which is between a 9-10 hour window every day, with the odd cheat day thrown in at weekends, no refined sugars, no alcohol..

 

Clomiphene is known for severe depression type symptoms, so don't be too concerned, it is expected..

Disappointed your "endo" (small case it was intended) won't prescribe an AI.. but you need to help yourself by dropping that bf%..

 

I could be wrong, but isn't clomiphene a synthetic estrogen so could show up as estrogen on blood estradiol testing.???

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13 minutes ago, Notabodybuilder said:

to be honest, it's hard to know how much of it is pre-existing, fibromyalgia and depression probably means I'm already sensitized to any changes, the old central nervous system feels is a bit out of whack to start with which I doubt will be helping.

try omitting these from your diet..

  • Aspartame. ...
  • Caffeine. ...
  • Sugar. ...
  • MSG and sodium nitrite. ...
  • Dairy. ...
  • Gluten.

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14 hours ago, Biggerbythedaynz said:

Hiya Daz, im off everything now, trying to restore fertility, seeing a reproductive specialiast on high dose clomiphene only at present. Im predisposed to high estrogen value, bodyfat was 21% at last check. Estro was 427 about 8 weeks ago but has been  increasing over prior 3 tests. Soon as the boys are back and a bubba on the way ill get back on trt etc... not taking anything for e2 as they wont give me anything for it. Not being a drain on the public system either im paying cash and at private specialists to avoid waiting times etc... reckon an aromasin eod would have me in a better place. Trying to drop bf% lethargy depression and anxiety to the max at moment takes courage to get out of bed in the am. Test was 6.7 end january then 4.8 at end feb. Diet is clean manage my caloric intake vs protein appropriately etc.. but them love handles and man boobs man lol. Will be back on the bus and on top of things again soon hopefully and regain some normality, then its just sorting test dose and frequency and some e2 management. OP- not hijacking your post mate,but all this stuff will give you insights to what youre in for. Also if planning on having kids try get some swimmers frozen for a later date just in case you fry those leydig and sertoli cells Daz is always warning us about.  Loads of homework as it seems our endos arent as 'jacked' as wed like to think when it comes to this stuff. Id still be up the creek without a paddle if it werent for our resident gymnation forum specialist ;) 

Hey there, what a rough time, and thanks for sharing that! If its any consolation I can certainly relate 2 that, especially in the morning! Out of interest and if you don't mind me asking, did you suffer depression/anxiety as part of having low test, and have you taken any medication for it while on test?  Feeling pretty ragged here too at the moment, and the physical fatigue! Aching all over, sore back, sore and weak legs. Waking up feeling like my head is stuffed full of cotton wool and weighs twice as much as it should. In a perverse way I'm hoping when I get my next bloods my test. levels will have gone down, at least I will feel like I have a reason for feeling like I do and still have room to improve.  No worries here  regards children, missed that boat long time (deliberately in our case). Hey and no worries about "hijacking" the thread, I'm just really glad you guys are prepared to share your experiences with me and I found this forum. One thing I've learnt is the body is a complicated beast, especially when it comes to hormones.

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The body sure is complicated! No, not on anything, just a constant effort in reminding myself a positive attitude will overcome a lot. Thankfully i have a supportive wife who keeps me on track when im to down to do it myself. @Daz69  im sure clomiphene does add to it all. And apparently the endo reckons an AI is 'overated' but whilst im being regularly checked and monitored making any improvements on my own will certainly be noticed. Thanks for that link will watch it now, i know i need to drop bf% asap, its mentally being strong enough to compensate to get through it. Sounds like you have had good results with it and will definitely try and report back. OP this low t issue is a mind game and continuous learning until the sweet spot that works for you is found

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20 hours ago, Biggerbythedaynz said:

The body sure is complicated! No, not on anything, just a constant effort in reminding myself a positive attitude will overcome a lot. Thankfully i have a supportive wife who keeps me on track when im to down to do it myself. @Daz69  im sure clomiphene does add to it all. And apparently the endo reckons an AI is 'overated' but whilst im being regularly checked and monitored making any improvements on my own will certainly be noticed. Thanks for that link will watch it now, i know i need to drop bf% asap, its mentally being strong enough to compensate to get through it. Sounds like you have had good results with it and will definitely try and report back. OP this low t issue is a mind game and continuous learning until the sweet spot that works for you is found

 

Remember it's the metabolic conversion process of testosterone to estrogen in the testes that produces oxidative free radical damage to leydig and sertoli cells, once necrosed the damage is permanent making recovery or testosterone production/spermatogenesis less likely, therefore a low dose AI might be prudent in your case of elevated estrogen...

Most of your estrogen production would be from aromatase in adipose tissue (high bf%), but some will be from the testes, so protection of what functioning cells you do have working there should be a priority..

 

An endo should know this, it's pretty basic stuff... $800/hour..lol :-) :-) :-)  

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On 09/03/2018 at 9:00 PM, Biggerbythedaynz said:

Id still be up the creek without a paddle if it werent for our resident gymnation forum specialist ;) 

You, and a bunch of others too! Just wanted to say thanks for all your help here, Daz. It's much appreciated by everyone. :-) 

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21 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

You, and a bunch of others too! Just wanted to say thanks for all your help here, Daz. It's much appreciated by everyone. :-) 

:-)

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Hey there everybody, just got my first follow-up blood test. Apparently test. has gone up to something like 9.5, which is an improvement I think but still on the low side. Can't say I feel any improvements, it has been an intense couple of weeks though as my Dad just passed away. Will keep sticking with it for now. Two more shots of Sustanon and then off to see the endo.

 

Hey Daz69, I wonder if you have any advice about zinc. I suspect my levels may still be a bit low, even though I am taking a 15mg Zinc Citrate supplement. I read somewhere that to restore levels probably requires about 30mg for several months. I would be interested in doing a taste test, but the local pharmacies are all out at the moment. I have seen one for sale online, may check it out, I'm curious. Is there a good supplement you would recommend?  Oh well, onwards and upwards, hope you all doing ok.

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9 hours ago, Notabodybuilder said:

Hey there everybody, just got my first follow-up blood test. Apparently test. has gone up to something like 9.5, which is an improvement I think but still on the low side. Can't say I feel any improvements, it has been an intense couple of weeks though as my Dad just passed away. Will keep sticking with it for now. Two more shots of Sustanon and then off to see the endo.

 

Hey Daz69, I wonder if you have any advice about zinc. I suspect my levels may still be a bit low, even though I am taking a 15mg Zinc Citrate supplement. I read somewhere that to restore levels probably requires about 30mg for several months. I would be interested in doing a taste test, but the local pharmacies are all out at the moment. I have seen one for sale online, may check it out, I'm curious. Is there a good supplement you would recommend?  Oh well, onwards and upwards, hope you all doing ok.

 

Try zinc picolinate, but remember zinc can leave you deficient in copper so it's best to make sure you get adequate amounts too..... from google:

 

Zinc is not easily absorbed, but more can enter your bloodstream when it's chelated, or attached to another substance that is absorbed well.

 

 

 

 

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On 3/27/2018 at 10:11 PM, Daz69 said:

 

Try zinc picolinate, but remember zinc can leave you deficient in copper so it's best to make sure you get adequate amounts too..... from google:

 

Zinc is not easily absorbed, but more can enter your bloodstream when it's chelated, or attached to another substance that is absorbed well.

 

 

 

 

thanks for that, will look into it

 

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