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Wantmoregainz

HCG on cycle?

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Curious to know whether anyone has tried this & whether you experienced good results??

Seems to be quite a bit of anecdotal evidence of people running say, 500iu a week split into 2 doses of 250iu... starting at week 3 or 4 of the cycle and running through until the end.
Thought it seemed like a good idea to prevent damage to the testes if possible, like - why not??

 

Anyway - is HCG illegal in NZ ?? Seems to be some weird creepy looking weightloss clinics advertising it, but maybe that's not the same compound?

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2 minutes ago, Wantmoregainz said:

Curious to know whether anyone has tried this & whether you experienced good results??

Seems to be quite a bit of anecdotal evidence of people running say, 500iu a week split into 2 doses of 250iu... starting at week 3 or 4 of the cycle and running through until the end.
Thought it seemed like a good idea to prevent damage to the testes if possible, like - why not??

 

Anyway - is HCG illegal in NZ ?? Seems to be some weird creepy looking weightloss clinics advertising it, but maybe that's not the same compound?

 

Why would you assume hCG prevents damage..? All it does is mimic LH, increasing endogenous testosterone, which seems pointless when most users are on 10 times natural dose anyway..

Research shows reactive oxygen species are primarily responsible for oxidative damage to leydig and sertoli cells..

As previously stated supplementation with Taurine can mitigate these effects on-cycle:

 

Taurine plays important roles in the male reproductive system and sperm cells. Besides its ability to regulate cellular osmosis and stabilize cell membranes, taurine acts as a capacitating agent and as a sperm motility factor (Mrsny et al., 1979). In addition, taurine can inhibit sperm lipid peroxidation by virtue of its antioxidant properties (Manna et al., 2008). Experimentally, taurine showed protective effects against testicular toxicity induced by endosulfan and cadmium (Manna et al., 2008; Aly and Khafagy, 2014).

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25542992

 

It's prescription only.. Good luck trying to get a script from anyone apart from an endocrinologist for spermatogenesis..

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31 minutes ago, Kalidane said:

Cool, but what are the implications for after the cycle?  Who really cares what the testes do while on holiday, if they come back 100% after cycle.

 

I don't understand what you are trying to say..?

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On 12/30/2017 at 8:55 PM, Daz69 said:

 

I don't understand what you are trying to say..?

Most readers don't click-through to studies so it's helpful to mention this was a study on rats.

 

What happens in the rat model after ceasing nandrolone?  Without introducing taurine or anything else.  The passage of time attentuates nandrolone decanoate-induced poor sperm quality and testicular toxicity, right?

 

Assuming taurine does similarly cool stuff in humans while using nandrolone, the conclusion of the study appears to be don't make a baby while on cycle.  Or, supplement with taurine and it's probably okay to make a baby.

 

Or do the on-cycle benefits of taurine have an impact on other important things during the cycle?  Keep in mind that <4 readers know if this is desirable "This was evidenced by taurine-induced modulation of testicular LDH-x activity" and I'm not one of them.

 

 

 

 

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On 30/12/2017 at 8:24 PM, Kalidane said:

Cool, but what are the implications for after the cycle?  Who really cares what the testes do while on holiday, if they come back 100% after cycle.

They don't that's the problem, they can be damaged via ROS making recovery imposible in some people..

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On 12/29/2017 at 9:51 AM, Daz69 said:

Why would you assume hCG prevents damage..? All it does is mimic LH, increasing endogenous testosterone, which seems pointless when most users are on 10 times natural dose anyway..

Isn't the whole problem though, that the testes essentially shut down (ie testicular atrophy) and natural test production tanks, because the body presumes it doesn't need to produce testosterone while you're on cycle??

So therefore, if there's something that mimics LH and keeps the testes functioning as per normal - then once you finish the cycle and begin your PCT, ideally you're in better shape than you otherwise would be?

It's not that you'd benefit from the endogenous test in the sense of your overall levels, but in the fact that the testes keep producing it in the first place - minimizing how much shut down occurs.

Noted on the Taurine research too, thanks bro. Will be sure to add that in :) 

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27 minutes ago, Wantmoregainz said:

Isn't the whole problem though, that the testes essentially shut down (ie testicular atrophy) and natural test production tanks, because the body presumes it doesn't need to produce testosterone while you're on cycle??

So therefore, if there's something that mimics LH and keeps the testes functioning as per normal - then once you finish the cycle and begin your PCT, ideally you're in better shape than you otherwise would be?

It's not that you'd benefit from the endogenous test in the sense of your overall levels, but in the fact that the testes keep producing it in the first place - minimizing how much shut down occurs.

Noted on the Taurine research too, thanks bro. Will be sure to add that in :) 

 

Some people report hCG can throw Oestradiol out of whack on cycle, estrogen conversion can also cause problems mentioned below..

Testicular atrophy isn't that much of a deal, it's only cosmetic, but if that's your thing then no harm using for that purpose if you feel it's really necessary..

The problem on-cycle that hCG does not address is Oestradiol conversion in the testes, can (dose dependant) cause oxidative metabolites (R.O.S) to damage leydig and sertoli cells.. This damage can be permanent, once damaged restart becomes an issue, the hypothalamus seems to stimulate GnRH pretty quickly post cycle which in turn results in downstream LH, and FSH production, the problem then is stimulating testosterone production and spermatogenesis from damaged cells... 

This is where protection from oxidative stress is essential with the supplementation previously discussed, hCG doesn't protect leydig or sertoli cells from oxidative free radicals, if anything the extra testosterone production and subsequent conversion to oestradiol could make matters worse..

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Ordinarily we'd detect and remove most (all?) damaged cells wouldn't we?  This seems like a pivotal factor.  If the messed up fellas are allowed to hang around and divide then I can begin to see the problem.  It becomes and issue of degree of damage, i.e. dosage and duration.

 

If it all gets cleaned up over time then meh.

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13 minutes ago, Kalidane said:

Ordinarily we'd detect and remove most (all?) damaged cells wouldn't we?  This seems like a pivotal factor.  If the messed up fellas are allowed to hang around and divide then I can begin to see the problem.  It becomes and issue of degree of damage, i.e. dosage and duration.

 

If it all gets cleaned up over time then meh.

 

It's the continual presence of oxidative free radicles whilst on cycle that is the issue, not necrotized or damaged cells from that process that cause the problem.. Once damaged they remain so, therefore unable to function properly in the future.. Making restart difficult if not impossible..

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