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trainlikeafreak

Dieting for strength

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All of the time I see guys and girls posting about dropping body weight and seeing their strength decrease rapidly. The truth is, this simply should not happen.

 

the goal for ANY resistance training athlete when dropping body weight should be to maintain as much lean body mass as possible, or even better, add some muscle as they diet down. Unless ofcourse the athlete is 3% BF and they are trying to make weight.

 

when I hear of guys dropping a lot of weight and seeing an enormous decrease in strength I automatically know that their nutrition is off. Often training too, but for a PLer who IS REGIMENTED they train a certain way and hit certain numbers when required etc, as opposed to a bodybuilder who just trains balls to the wall every day.

 

what I am saying is, people should get out of the mentality that more weight equates to more strength when in reality more muscle is what is going to do it (if technique is good and remains the same). Muscle moves more load than fat ever will. In fact having a tonne of excess fat will indirectly reduce your results because it will make you lethargic and that will probably effect your training.

 

i am dieting over 15 powerlifters at the moment. Basically all bar a few are life time naturals. Some hit ridiculous numbers raw, they are all bar a few coming down in bodyweight and are all still hitting PBs pretty much every week.

 

if you are dieting and getting weaker you are losing muscle. Either your DIET (most likely), your training or your MENTAL ATTITUDE needs to improve. Get your numbers right and work hard to keep the mass on.

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I see you're doing Carli and John and they're crushing it. Nice work bro~

 

The aussie lifters are next level in terms of being jacked as f*ck and strong as f*ck and it's purely because their nutrition is so much better ( talking enhanced lifters ) I am currently dropping weight then moving into that department being a fat c*nt is fun but it's not overly conducive for bigger numbers unless you're over 150kg. I think with so many lifters in PL now coming along with good physiques and dominating the weight classes more and more people will look to follow better nutrition for sure.

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Yeah bro they are both doing awesome and their numbers go up every week . Carli hit a 160k raw squat last week (no knee wraps) at 64-65kg and John hit a 150k for 5 bench at 73kg lol. I obviously don't want to take credit for that but ofcourse nutrition has something to do with it especially John as we took his Bw up in his off season and now we are slowly bringing it down and he is experiencing no negative effects only positive. I have taken on around 15 people at Get strength, all natty and have all got stronger with a decrease in body fat. I also have some guys doing GPC and they are in the same boat, getting leaner and PB city.

 

Tbh I think a big difference a lot of the time is when a natural guy gets stuck, he looks to his technique or his program etc etc. so many times a gassed guy with get stuck and the first thing he thinks about is his drug cycle. That's part of the issue right there and it's a big reason as to why these natural guys are lifting such insane numbers. I have a guy u92kg raw who deadlifted 310, 300 squat etc and that's without wraps.

 

but anyway that's beside the point lol. Yeah I think the goal should be to be at the top of your weight class in a lean state and avoid having to water cut at all costs. So say your u83.. just stay around 83 while slowly adding LBM which will cause a change in composition over time. Just my opinion though.

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Hmm the whole fat doesn't move weight statement is true at face value but it's not nessercerily true in reality when one is trying to lift at their absolute strongest and most efficient. Especially with guys in higher weight classes. Light weight people, which in this case u80 or so in general can put on a higher muscle to fat ratio on their gains. Someone who is a muscular not a fat 120kg often have to settle for a lower muscle to fat ratio gain. It's just the law of diminishing returns, do a 15 year old kid who joins the gym will gain all muscle and no fat sometimes even lose fat. An older heavily trained guy won't get the same thing happening. Back to the 120kg guy for them to gain 2kg of lbm they may have to put on 7kg of body fat over time to get that extra actual muscle mass. Unless they want to do it really really slowly but it's not bodybuilding. So then it becomes more difficult to diet it off. So consequently bodyfat percentages rise and the lifter goes up through the weight classes. The strongest guys in the world are evidence of all of that. Or you can stay really loyal to one weight class which is what people do for competitive reasons. But as far as then personally getting stronger then gaining weight would do that, they would just be in a higher weight class and lose but they would be stronger.

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Leverages must have an influence on moving a barbell from A-B also. So crazy drops or increases surely would result in altered lifting numbers. 

 

But  I guess slow and steady bodyweigjt drop would be more efficient in technical changes over time to keep stregth or get better. 

 

Ive never really dieted to te point of a total body transformation so can't speak from exp.  

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I was more so talking in terms of losing weight. If someone has developed a certain amount of muscle and strength and has maintained for a bit then I see no reason why they should get substantially weaker, or weaker at all in truth, when going down a weight class. From what I've seen these problems usually occur when the persons either lazy, dieting incorrectly or have put the size/strength on fast and synthetically. Again just my opinion 

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12 hours ago, Monarchking said:

 Leverages must have an influence on moving a barbell from A-B also. So crazy drops or increases surely would result in altered lifting numbers. 

 

But  I guess slow and steady bodyweigjt drop would be more efficient in technical changes over time to keep stregth or get better. 

 

Ive never really dieted to te point of a total body transformation so can't speak from exp.  

Crazy drops are never recommended and that's where a lot of people go wrong imo

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I agree with you on the point that muscle shifts weight and more I like the point that nattys will look to work on execution, intensity and frequency of training to keep improving whereas a lot of enhanced (definitely not at elite level) guys will look to their drugs. Pretty much the same as bodybuilders. As a bodybuilder I'd actually find my strength increased as my bw dropped and my numbers were in deficit for comps. Essentially because my mental focus was on point, my nutrition was on point and I had zero expectation of getting weaker. Even losing weight now my numbers are the same as normal even though I'm down about 8k and probably going to drop another 5 or so. 

 

I think it's mindset. 

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I find having a little fat stops my elbows and left shoulder hurting when lifting heavy. 

When I cut even when I warm up loads still get elbow pain with heavy lifting. 

But I agree with what your saying, my strength is more or less the same fat or thin. 

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On 31/03/2017 at 4:55 PM, trainlikeafreak said:

Yeah bro they are both doing awesome and their numbers go up every week . Carli hit a 160k raw squat last week (no knee wraps) at 64-65kg and John hit a 150k for 5 bench at 73kg lol. I obviously don't want to take credit for that but ofcourse nutrition has something to do with it especially John as we took his Bw up in his off season and now we are slowly bringing it down and he is experiencing no negative effects only positive. I have taken on around 15 people at Get strength, all natty and have all got stronger with a decrease in body fat. I also have some guys doing GPC and they are in the same boat, getting leaner and PB city.

 

Tbh I think a big difference a lot of the time is when a natural guy gets stuck, he looks to his technique or his program etc etc. so many times a gassed guy with get stuck and the first thing he thinks about is his drug cycle. That's part of the issue right there and it's a big reason as to why these natural guys are lifting such insane numbers. I have a guy u92kg raw who deadlifted 310, 300 squat etc and that's without wraps.

 

but anyway that's beside the point lol. Yeah I think the goal should be to be at the top of your weight class in a lean state and avoid having to water cut at all costs. So say your u83.. just stay around 83 while slowly adding LBM which will cause a change in composition over time. Just my opinion though.

That comment re: natty/drugs looking to program / cycle isn't really true not with anyone I know anyways - if you have a coach and program you ask and tweak the only time drugs are really used or upped is during the 12 week prep for a comp and if you're still stuck then your programming is 1000% wrong and you need to fix it lol

 

What Tom said is true - the bigger you are the harder it is to add lean without the extra fat hence the super heavies are all 150kg + but you know that under most of them is a shit ton of lean mass. The guys I follow, f*ck there are some insane physiques from 100-120ish KG its inspiring as f*ck and makes me wish I wasn't about to turn 40. Larry ( wheels ) Williams, Kevin Oak, Will Crozier, Josh Tait, Sebastian Oreb, Herbietheluvbug ( instaname), Dan Green.. Steve Gentili who's probs one of my fav's looks like the fucking hulk at 280lbs and heaps more - the days of "fat powerlifter" are kinda gone with more people focusing on nutrition and conditioning over just eating everything ( my pref method lmao )

 

But yeah either way what you're helping John/Carli and others with is awesome they give you heaps of credit for their lifts so it shows you put in the work for them so they can put in the work for themselves. :D

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3 minutes ago, donz said:

That comment re: natty/drugs looking to program / cycle isn't really true not with anyone I know anyways - if you have a coach and program you ask and tweak the only time drugs are really used or upped is during the 12 week prep for a comp and if you're still stuck then your programming is 1000% wrong and you need to fix it lol

 

 

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly. I didn't mean it with everyone lol.. just a lot of the time it's true and it's the same with bodybuilding. First thing that comes into a lot of people's head is what should I run. A lot of the time it's the guys doing men's physique that think like that too which is amusing. I know guys who won't be hard and crisp the day before their show so they shoot 6ml of tren ace and think it's gonna make a difference lol (no joke). I used the good natty lifters as an example because they out lift a lot of the juiced guys because they have NO CHOICE but to look the the most important part. Then you get a guy with the same mentality who also uses and just becomes a freak. The biggest strongest guys are always going to be on stuff but I think a lot of guys who aren't where they want to be could definitely get somewhere by adopting the mind set and maybe picking the brains of some of these natural guys because they are doing something right their numbers don't lie.

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26 minutes ago, trainlikeafreak said:

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly. I didn't mean it with everyone lol.. just a lot of the time it's true and it's the same with bodybuilding. First thing that comes into a lot of people's head is what should I run. A lot of the time it's the guys doing men's physique that think like that too which is amusing. I know guys who won't be hard and crisp the day before their show so they shoot 6ml of tren ace and think it's gonna make a difference lol (no joke). I used the good natty lifters as an example because they out lift a lot of the juiced guys because they have NO CHOICE but to look the the most important part. Then you get a guy with the same mentality who also uses and just becomes a freak. The biggest strongest guys are always going to be on stuff but I think a lot of guys who aren't where they want to be could definitely get somewhere by adopting the mind set and maybe picking the brains of some of these natural guys because they are doing something right their numbers don't lie.

Haha all good and yeah I was actually shocked when a friend of mine told me what he ran for his shows ( physique ) and after lots of explaining and chatting he down sized and still looked amazing and then his friend ALSO physique was apparently running more and looked SHIT! He came in with no abs, soft etc... makes the mind boggle! Anyways yeah back to point of thread - nutrition is fucking key! I know if and am yet to fully pursue it... might be cos Im less serious about it as I'm older and lazy and have issues squatting ( long story ) so the fact I can't show pony in three lift means I'm more saddo about it all haha

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trainlikeafreak, what kind of deficit do you have them running at to maintain strength and also to recomp ? Do you worry about macros ? 

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On 4/9/2017 at 8:31 PM, urbano said:

trainlikeafreak, what kind of deficit do you have them running at to maintain strength and also to recomp ? Do you worry about macros ? 

the deficit differs from person to person bro. the larger the deficit the more important it is to pay attention to nutrient timing tho imo to ensure performance and recovery. Yes I count macros but i don't use the IIFYM system.

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On 4/11/2017 at 5:57 PM, trainlikeafreak said:

the deficit differs from person to person bro. the larger the deficit the more important it is to pay attention to nutrient timing tho imo to ensure performance and recovery. Yes I count macros but i don't use the IIFYM system.

thanks for the info. Do you favor a  specific macro spilt of any kind ? thoughts on carb cycling in relation to training days...mumbo jumbo ? or legit ?

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On 4/15/2017 at 5:43 PM, urbano said:

thanks for the info. Do you favor a  specific macro spilt of any kind ? thoughts on carb cycling in relation to training days...mumbo jumbo ? or legit ?

i have a protein requirement for person to person but everything else differs based on the individual, their needs and their time frame. What i will say is nutrient timing is one of the most important aspects when the deficit grows IMO. carb cycling is a good system if you are in a deficit but its more of a bodybuilding approach IMO. 

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