Hello, I'd like to talk to people about steroids for an article!

[MavaE]

I'm a journalist for Radio New Zealand and The Wireless (RNZ's youth issues website). 

 

 I recently interviewed a toxicologist about the increase of steroid use in NZ among young men. The numbers of seizures of PIEDs at the border have also been increasing.

 

I'm keen to write an article about steroid use (aimed at the general public) that covers why young men do it, how easy/hard it is to source, and whether they're aware of the side effects. I think it's a fascinating area that not a lot of non-gym people know about. 

 

If you're keen to share your knowledge (you may be a user, thinking about using, or supplier) feel free to get in touch. Obviously,  protection of my sources is paramount so if you do choose to be interviewed, you can be kept anonymous.

 

FYI, you can check on my creds/other articles here: http://thewireless.co.nz/authors/mava-enoka 

 

Thank you! 

 

[kiwicannon]

Come on, typical journalist wanting to bend the facts to make a juicy BS  story and to add to the ""creds""

 

Anonymous?? pfft Journalists dont know the meaning of the word! 

 

57 minutes ago, MavaE said:

you may be a user, thinking about using, or supplier)

Hmmm?....yeah nah

 

[PETN]

Mava, there are only really negatives which would come from any such interview and the publicity and information released. I don't necessarily mean directly for the person interviewed if they were kept anonymous, but for all users.

 

There is a board spectrum of knowledge levels, and actual experience using etc  and also there's a pretty high chance that someone retarded will end up doing this and won't know side effects etc and will make all users look like complete fuckwits e.g. if interview is with someone from tokoroa again.

[Pseudonym]

@kiwicannon - if you look at Mava's link, and see what other work she's done, I think you might be pleasantly surprised. She doesn't seem like a tabloid reporter looking for a story to sensationalise. For example, here's a well-considered piece that, if anything, is actually sympathetic to drug users:

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/how-drug-checking-at-festivals-could-save-lives

Quote

Despite the support drug-checking has garnered, it doesn’t look like enough formal measures will be put in place in time for it to kick off this festival season. With a drug scene presenting users with ultra-high purity pills and unknown combinations of chemicals, that may be a lag New Zealand will look back on and regret.

 

 

Mava, PETN has probably summed up the feelings of most people involved in steroids - ie, the less said about it, the better. I think you'll struggle to find anyone that's worth talking to who will talk, and those that DO talk won't be worth talking to (like the kids from Tokoroa). If you're wondering why people are so wary of journalists, here's a couple of previous stories that ran in the media:

 

 

Having said that... why don't you put some questions out here, and people can answer them or not as they choose. You may also get a range of answers this way, whereas an interview would only ever give you one opinion.

[Daz69]

Maybe if she put a series of questions here on open forum we could collectively answer, to avoid previous issues with news media who have chosen less than credible subjects for interview...

 

Or the forum could nominate members to answer such as Tom Harry Marty and myself..

[ratz99]

11 hours ago, PETN said:

Mava, there are only really negatives which would come from any such interview and the publicity and information released. I don't necessarily mean directly for the person interviewed if they were kept anonymous, but for all users.

 

There is a board spectrum of knowledge levels, and actual experience using etc  and also there's a pretty high chance that someone retarded will end up doing this and won't know side effects etc and will make all users look like complete fuckwits e.g. if interview is with someone from tokoroa again.

Pahahah. Dan fucking Steed. And that other muppet on that interview. 

[MavaE]

I can see that the community is wary of attention and I understand you don't want idiots to  represent everyone. The annoying thing is,  idiots are part of almost every community and their experiences are still valid. The problem is when you *only* hear from these types of people which is perhaps happening right now (thanks for the links, Pseudonym). 

 

I guess the difficulty is, because of its nature (generally illegal to import, banned from competitive sport, kept underground, etc) it's an interesting topic that people are fascinated by. Journalists will keep writing about  it so if only idiots speak up, that's kind of shit for everyone. 

 

Also, I'd like to point out that no matter what a person writes, it's going to piss someone off. Even with the drug article, where  I was as reasonable and logical as possible (leaning towards what made the most sense in a public health way) and still some people were annoyed.

 

The reason I became interested is because I heard a talk by a doctor last week saying the number of seizures at the border are going up and she's not confident young men really know the risks (she works in emergency medicine/toxicology and has seen a  couple ruptured bicep tendions). 

 

I can't  write something that everyone will be happy with but I can definitely cover steroid use on a more balanced and in-depth level.  I don't want to have an article full of idiots so thanks for your feedback and advice. 

 

ANYWAY - I like the suggestion of just putting some questions out there. I will draft these up and post today. Thanks! 

[MavaE]

Questions:

Hi, here are some questions. Big thank you in advance for taking the time to read through and consider these. 

You can answer them in this forum or you can email me the answers if you’d prefer (mava.moayyed@thewireless.co.nz)

If you could include at least your age, sex and locality that will help me differentiate the voices in the piece.

1. There has been an increase of PIEDs seizures by NZ customs (88 in 2008 up to 329 in 2015). Do you think this is because of an increase in use or because customs are getting tougher at the border?

2. How high is the risk of ordering steroids online? If I did it today, I assume I wouldn’t be jailed immediately but perhaps get a warning? Even two or three? 

3. Alternatively, is it straightforward to get them from local suppliers? Without giving too much away, are they ordering them from overseas in bulk?

4. Excuse my ignorance with this one – do most users inject steroids? Do you inject straight into the area you want to enhance? How often and how much do most people use?

5. What's the price range?

6. Some people think you just need steroids to be “muscley”. Surely this is a fallacy? Do you still have to eat well and exercise hard? If so, what are we talking? How many days in the gym and average meal plan? (I want to paint a picture of what goes into sculpting a body, more than just steroids).

7. In your opinion, are there ways to use steroids in a “healthy” or “safe” way?

8. In your experiences, what are the most common side effects? Are they easily dealt with?

9. Has anyone experienced more serious side effects?

10. Anecdotally, younger men, especially in sports like rugby, are turning to steroids to enhance performance. Do you think they’re fully aware of the risks?

11. What’s the current problem with the image or perception of steroid users in popular culture and media? What are the damaging stereotypes?

12. In the current gym environment is there a bit of puritanical divide? Do “natural” body builders generally think their way is better than steroid users?

13. Why use steroids at all?

[cruxis]

I once Asked at the local needle exchange, they have seen use increase alot due to steroids use and a general idea of users.

 

Also there is a very large increase  women as well too.

[Pseudonym]

Here you go, Mava. I've answered what I can...

 

There has been an increase of PIEDs seizures by NZ customs (88 in 2008 up to 329 in 2015). Do you think this is because of an increase in use or because customs are getting tougher at the border?

I think it's probably both. I'm sure detection techniques are getting more sophisticated, but mostly this would be from an increase in popularity.

 

How high is the risk of ordering steroids online? If I did it today, I assume I wouldn’t be jailed immediately but perhaps get a warning? Even two or three? 

If a parcel is intercepted, and it's not a large amount (ie, for personal use, not supply), then I believe the usual response is a warning letter from MedSafe. Repeat offenders would probably be charged.

 

Alternatively, is it straightforward to get them from local suppliers? Without giving too much away, are they ordering them from overseas in bulk?

This seems to be the most common advice. At least then you're not sending your money into cyberspace and hoping for the best.

 

Excuse my ignorance with this one – do most users inject steroids? Do you inject straight into the area you want to enhance? How often and how much do most people use?

Intra-muscular injection is the usual method, but steroids aren't site-specific (with a few dubious exceptions). They work systemically and take time and repeated injections to build up to significant levels in the body.

 

Some people think you just need steroids to be “muscley”. Surely this is a fallacy? Do you still have to eat well and exercise hard? If so, what are we talking? How many days in the gym and average meal plan? (I want to paint a picture of what goes into sculpting a body, more than just steroids).

I think the general public may have a perception that steroids equal instant muscle, no other training required. Natural gym-goers usually acknowledge hard work is still required, but there's still a lot of debate between the "natty" and the "juiced" guys about just how much advantage using steroids gives you. The natties attribute any gains to the gear, while the juicers say they just work harder.  

 

In your opinion, are there ways to use steroids in a “healthy” or “safe” way?

Healthy, no. Safe, depends on your definition. It's never completely without risk (but then, neither is taking an aspirin). But it is possible to use them more and less responsibly, and users can minimise the risks.

 

The biggest dangers, IMO, aren't in the steroids themselves, but from the fact that being underground, users have no certainty about the product. There's no guarantee on the dosage, or sterility - or even if the product is actually what their dealer sold it as.

 

In your experiences, what are the most common side effects? Are they easily dealt with?

Has anyone experienced more serious side effects?

Trawl through this forum, and you'll find people asking for advice on the various side effects they have experienced.

 

Anecdotally, younger men, especially in sports like rugby, are turning to steroids to enhance performance. Do you think they’re fully aware of the risks?

No. I think the greater the stigma around steroids, the less likely people are to discuss and research it properly, and the less informed they're going to be. They'll grab "a steroid" from the first shady dealer they can find - regardless of what it is, or what it does (there are many different types of anabolic steroids, and some are better than others). In that sense, I think users in sports like  rugby are probably at more risk than your average gym junkie who faces less of a stigma around "clean" and "dirty" play.

 

What’s the current problem with the image or perception of steroid users in popular culture and media? What are the damaging stereotypes?

See above.

 

In the current gym environment is there a bit of puritanical divide? Do “natural” body builders generally think their way is better than steroid users?

I reckon there's actually less of a divide now than there used to be. It used to be quite bitter. Now the usual response is more like, "Meh. Each to their own."

 

Maybe that's an indication that the gym environment is becoming more accepting of "enhanced" athletes - and maybe that's an indication of its rising use. Or maybe society is just growing up!

[bang_bang]

21 hours ago, MavaE said:

Questions:

 

Hi, here are some questions. Big thank you in advance for taking the time to read through and consider these. 

You can answer them in this forum or you can email me the answers if you’d prefer (mava.moayyed@thewireless.co.nz)

 

If you could include at least your age, sex and locality that will help me differentiate the voices in the piece. 28, male, chch.

 

Quote

1. There has been an increase of PIEDs seizures by NZ customs (88 in 2008 up to 329 in 2015). Do you think this is because of an increase in use or because customs are getting tougher at the border. Both but mostly because of more users.
2. How high is the risk of ordering steroids online? If I did it today, I assume I wouldn’t be jailed immediately but perhaps get a warning? Even two or three? 

   Chances are you'll just lose your money. Oral steroids are easier to get through than injectables.

3. Alternatively, is it straightforward to get them from local suppliers? Without giving too much away, are they ordering them from overseas in bulk? Yes most people source locally or online from within NZ. Dealers import the raw materials in bulk then manufacture it at home.

    

4. Excuse my ignorance with this one – do most users inject steroids? Do you inject straight into the area you want to enhance? How often and how much do most people use? Yes most steroids are injected intramuscularly, you can also get oral steroids but they can only be taken for a few weeks at a time because they are toxic to your liver. Quick acting compounds need to be injected every day or every second day. Most are injected once or twice a week. Dosages vary hugely, a beginner will use 1-2ml a week, an advanced user may use 10ml or more a week.

    

5. What's the price range?

   Generally $80-$120 for a 10ml vial.

6. Some people think you just need steroids to be “muscley”. Surely this is a fallacy? Do you still have to eat well and exercise hard? If so, what are we talking? How many days in the gym and average meal plan? (I want to paint a picture of what goes into sculpting a body, more than just steroids). If you started using and did nothing yes you would likely gain a little muscle but the more effort you put in the better results you'll achieve. Many users experience very underwhelming results due to not training and eating correctly. Training and dieting properly is more effective that steroids. If you get those right then add steroids you can achieve excellent results.

    

7. In your opinion, are there ways to use steroids in a “healthy” or “safe” way?

   Obviously its not healthy and anyone who says otherwise has their head buried in the sand but risks can be minimised if you're educated and make sensible choices.

8. In your experiences, what are the most common side effects? Are they easily dealt with?

   Depends on what compound and at what dosage you use. The most common side effects for me are strength/muscle growth, increased libido and great sense of well being. I don't get any noticeable negative side effects generally.  

9. Has anyone experienced more serious side effects?

   Small amount of gynecomastia and mental instability due to reckless use of a particular compound would be worst I've experienced.

10. Anecdotally, younger men, especially in sports like rugby, are turning to steroids to enhance performance. Do you think they’re fully aware of the risks?

    No they aren't fully aware. There's a new type of user that is very uneducated on potential risks.

11. What’s the current problem with the image or perception of steroid users in popular culture and media? What are the damaging stereotypes?

    I dunno.

12. In the current gym environment is there a bit of puritanical divide? Do “natural” body builders generally think their way is better than steroid users?

    Most serious gym goers have a healthy respect for each other and their choices. There are exceptions obviously.

13. Why use steroids at all?

    Because I compete in strength sports and they allow me to push beyond my genetic limit. They have also hugely increased my quality of life outside of the gym.

 

[donz]

Just curious about the correlation of ruptured bicep tendons to steroids... sounds kinda bs unless you're suggesting they injected a super large needle and amount of steroids into their arm and it exploded the bicep. Ka pow!

 

Good luck with the article!

[Daz69]

1 hour ago, donz said:

Just curious about the correlation of ruptured bicep tendons to steroids... sounds kinda bs unless you're suggesting they injected a super large needle and amount of steroids into their arm and it exploded the bicep. Ka pow!

 

Good luck with the article!

 

Its believed AAS (winstrol in particular) contribute to connective tissue rupture, ie: makes them more brittle, by accelerating the healing process of the wrong type of collagen...

[MavaE]

1 hour ago, donz said:

Just curious about the correlation of ruptured bicep tendons to steroids... sounds kinda bs unless you're suggesting they injected a super large needle and amount of steroids into their arm and it exploded the bicep. Ka pow!

2

 

So this was information I got from Dr Emma Lawrey, an emergency physician at Auckland Hospital.

 

She says: "I’d actually seen a couple [young men] in a row with a bicep tendon rupture and something in the back of my mind reminded me that I’d read an article about upper limb tendon ruptures in men and a probable increased risk in steroid users.”

 

She says when she asked, several of the young men told her they were using steroids. 

 

She talked about and overseas study which looked at 132 bodybuilders and everybody who had raptured an upper limb tendon was using an anabolic steroid. “That doesn’t necessarily mean that anybody who ruptures is [using steroids], but it certainly suggests that it increases your risk.”  

[donz]

3 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

Its believed AAS (winstrol in particular) contribute to connective tissue rupture, ie: makes them more brittle, by accelerating the healing process of the wrong type of collagen...

Lol fair enough, guess anyone can believe anything they want.. I would have thought I'd see a shit ton more bodybuilders walking round with these injuries then especially leading into a competition while they're all guzzling back or jabbing winny~

 

Mavae - fair enough but you did say "a couple" which is what like 2? Lol pretty hilarious to see 2 injuries and think "aliens"  - wait, "steroids" also you said a couple and now you're saying several told her they were using - pretty confusing to go from her thinking to her being told.. sorry I'm legit just being a pain in the ass now haha I'll leave ya to it :) 

 

 

[Realtalk]

A couple in a row was probably an occasion. Several was probably overall.

 

Hows it hilarious? she's just drawing a conclusion from what she has read and been told. Of course you cant really pin point a cause of an injury to one factor most of the time so a bit of assumption is common. 

 

A lot of time when people get strong really quickly which is what happens on steroids the risk or chance of injury is higher than if it was a slower progression which is what happens naturally. It's common sense theory.

 

 

[PETN]

On 29/11/2016 at 9:25 AM, MavaE said:

Questions:

 

Hi, here are some questions. Big thank you in advance for taking the time to read through and consider these. 

You can answer them in this forum or you can email me the answers if you’d prefer (mava.moayyed@thewireless.co.nz)

 

If you could include at least your age, sex and locality that will help me differentiate the voices in the piece.

 

1. There has been an increase of PIEDs seizures by NZ customs (88 in 2008 up to 329 in 2015). Do you think this is because of an increase in use or because customs are getting tougher at the border?

    

2. How high is the risk of ordering steroids online? If I did it today, I assume I wouldn’t be jailed immediately but perhaps get a warning? Even two or three? 

    

3. Alternatively, is it straightforward to get them from local suppliers? Without giving too much away, are they ordering them from overseas in bulk?

    

4. Excuse my ignorance with this one – do most users inject steroids? Do you inject straight into the area you want to enhance? How often and how much do most people use?

    

5. What's the price range?

    

6. Some people think you just need steroids to be “muscley”. Surely this is a fallacy? Do you still have to eat well and exercise hard? If so, what are we talking? How many days in the gym and average meal plan? (I want to paint a picture of what goes into sculpting a body, more than just steroids).

    

7. In your opinion, are there ways to use steroids in a “healthy” or “safe” way?

    

8. In your experiences, what are the most common side effects? Are they easily dealt with?

    

9. Has anyone experienced more serious side effects?

    

10. Anecdotally, younger men, especially in sports like rugby, are turning to steroids to enhance performance. Do you think they’re fully aware of the risks?

     

11. What’s the current problem with the image or perception of steroid users in popular culture and media? What are the damaging stereotypes?

     

12. In the current gym environment is there a bit of puritanical divide? Do “natural” body builders generally think their way is better than steroid users?

     

13. Why use steroids at all?

     

 

1. Looks like really good odds of getting stuff in if that's all they got. Both, but they're obviously just scratching the surface.

 

2. Depends on quantity. If it's blatantly for supply who knows. A but for personal use though, it will just get seized and perhaps a warning letter from medsafe.

 

3. Obviously it's coming in from overseas in bulk. I've never heard of anyone in nz synthesizing the powders themselves. Easy to get yes, but likely to get ripped off. High price and/or poor product.

 

4. Inject. It's systemic. It goes into your blood and goes all around the body. Perhaps look into how anabolic steroids work if you're writing an article on them?

 

5. Price range of what exactly? What's the price of 1kg of sugar? What's the price of 10 million tonnes of sugar?

 

6. Cbf but it's common sense. Steroids helps a bit.

 

7. No, unless you're an AIDS patient it won't have a positive effect on health. You can try reduce negative effects though (lower doses).

 

8. Acne on back, mammary gland irritation/growth, louder breathing, occasional infection requiring surgery lol.

 

9. See above/attached. Not major compared to long list of people who have had their hearts f*ck out due to drug, including steroid, use.

 

 

10. The same as people are aware of the risks of alcohol. People ignore the risks.

 

11. No problem personally.

 

12. It's more pronnounced in powerlifting than bodybuilding. The reality is that most (with a few exceptions) people who don't take steroids are shit anyway. If you're good and serious about bodybuilding or powerlifting you'll take steroids and be better.

 

13. Bigger faster stronger. f*ck more attractive women. Easier to lift heavy stuff in everyday life.

 

PS. Me posting my picture here isn't permission for you to use it.

[ratz99]

8 hours ago, PETN said:

 

1. Looks like really good odds of getting stuff in if that's all they got. Both, but they're obviously just scratching the surface.

 

2. Depends on quantity. If it's blatantly for supply who knows. A but for personal use though, it will just get seized and perhaps a warning letter from medsafe.

 

3. Obviously it's coming in from overseas in bulk. I've never heard of anyone in nz synthesizing the powders themselves. Easy to get yes, but likely to get ripped off. High price and/or poor product.

 

4. Inject. It's systemic. It goes into your blood and goes all around the body. Perhaps look into how anabolic steroids work if you're writing an article on them?

 

5. Price range of what exactly? What's the price of 1kg of sugar? What's the price of 10 million tonnes of sugar?

 

6. Cbf but it's common sense. Steroids helps a bit.

 

7. No, unless you're an AIDS patient it won't have a positive effect on health. You can try reduce negative effects though (lower doses).

 

8. Acne on back, mammary gland irritation/growth, louder breathing, occasional infection requiring surgery lol.

 

9. See above/attached. Not major compared to long list of people who have had their hearts f*ck out due to drug, including steroid, use.

 

 

10. The same as people are aware of the risks of alcohol. People ignore the risks.

 

11. No problem personally.

 

12. It's more pronnounced in powerlifting than bodybuilding. The reality is that most (with a few exceptions) people who don't take steroids are shit anyway. If you're good and serious about bodybuilding or powerlifting you'll take steroids and be better.

 

13. Bigger faster stronger. f*ck more attractive women. Easier to lift heavy stuff in everyday life.

 

PS. Me posting my picture here isn't permission for you to use it.

 what the f*ck happened there bro ? injection site infection? 

[MavaE]

10 hours ago, PETN said:

PS. Me posting my picture here isn't permission for you to use it.

That looks so painful! Hope it's all healed.

[donz]

1.  Dunno
2.  Dunno

3.  Dunno

4. Excuse my ignorance with this one – do most users inject steroids? Do you inject straight into the area you want to enhance? How often and how much do most people use? Injectables seem the most common but lots of people use orals only - unsure why. People inject muscles - preferred ones as everyone has a different genetic lay out of nerves/veins so some areas are better for different people.

    

5. What's the price range? Less than over the counter supplements

    

6. Some people think you just need steroids to be “muscley”. Surely this is a fallacy? Do you still have to eat well and exercise hard? If so, what are we talking? How many days in the gym and average meal plan? (I want to paint a picture of what goes into sculpting a body, more than just steroids). I'm pretty sure the primary reason for steroids is recovery? I could be wrong I'm not a chemist or whatever but they will also help you grow faster than if you were natural if your nutrition is good. I've seen a lot of fat, shit c*nt looking people on steroids who are still weak as hell.

    

7. In your opinion, are there ways to use steroids in a “healthy” or “safe” way? You should ask the doctors who prescribe steroids for HRT/TRT and depression. I have a friend whos on it in due to depression and naturally low testosterone levels. This has increased his day to day life. Steroids are also used to recovery from injury faster. Safety depends on the person I guess. Some people get infections and have complications others don't.

    

8. In your experiences, what are the most common side effects? Are they easily dealt with? Acne seems most common. Hair loss will affect those predisposed to it so its speeding up something that will happen anyway so unsure if you can class as a side effect. I've never seen rage from steroids only rage I've seen is when bodybuilding morons are dieting and can't handle being hungry.

    

9. Has anyone experienced more serious side effects? Not that I'm aware of. I did read an article where some guy in the NZ army had a heart attack and they blamed it on the dianabol he had under his bed even though he was taking caffiene pills by the dozen, running obstacle courses and had a pre-existing heriditary heart condition. Sigh.

    

10. Anecdotally, younger men, especially in sports like rugby, are turning to steroids to enhance performance. Do you think they’re fully aware of the risks? Course they are. People want to be the best from novice up to Olympic level. Higher level athletes just get caught less because they're smarter or have team doctors who tell them what to take and when IE the NFL.

     

11. What’s the current problem with the image or perception of steroid users in popular culture and media? What are the damaging stereotypes? Steroids make you crazy/kill people. Lol.

     

12. In the current gym environment is there a bit of puritanical divide? Do “natural” body builders generally think their  way is better than steroid users? Natural lifters often have to put the word natural in their instagram / FB names because they need an excuse for looking shit. If a natural lifter spends 4 hours a day in the gym and a guy on steroids spends 4 hours a day in the gym they're both working equally as hard. But serious answer - no I train with enhanced and natural lifters. If you lift you lift.

     

FBI DISCLAIMER :: EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM IS NATURAL

[ratz99]

11 minutes ago, donz said:

1. Natural lifters often have to put the word natural in their instagram / FB names because they need an excuse for looking shit. 

hahaha love this quote.

[jimmybro1]

18 minutes ago, donz said:

1.  

2. In the current gym environment is there a bit of puritanical divide? Do “natural” body builders generally think their  way is better than steroid users? Natural lifters often have to put the word natural in their instagram / FB names because they need an excuse for looking shit

    

Or they are trying to sell something... 

[Pseudonym]

3 hours ago, donz said:

Natural lifters often have to put the word natural in their instagram / FB names because they need an excuse for looking shit.

Fixed.

 

[Terrymundo]

Article is up www.thewireless.co.nz 

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/let-the-gains-begin-steroid-users-tell-us-why-they-juice

 

Surprising neutral 

[ratz99]

Just now, Terrymundo said:

Article is up www.thewireless.co.nz 

Was a good article. Not one sided at all, and hopefully will allow readers to see not all users are as dumb as the ones the mainstream media chooses to interview. I enjoyed reading.