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Cruising and Blasting Experiences

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9 minutes ago, trainlikeafreak said:

Then what's the point of coming off at all? Lol best thing to do is harden the F up and work on your patience.. just my opinion.. but what would I know I'm not a scientist. 

The point in coming off is that you're coming off to clear out all the gear. Typically people use long acting gear... so 6 weeks is like a clear out period... feel yourself come down from the high dosages and wait until you're cleaned out... not just the gear but the metabolites of the gear you've been using... they can hang around for a while!

 

I'm kind of a scientist. ;) 

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So why cruise? Like I think tlaf was getting at the idea of just taking the time off to clear receptors so you're body responds to what you take next cycle and you mitigate sides. 

 

This is where I've never understood cruise blast protocols. But we're all different. I've never run super high doses and I don't turn into a 10 year old girl as soon as I stop pinning so the down time is easy enough for me and in fact I enjoy being off for the fact my energy and mood are more consistent. 

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Just now, HarryB said:

So why cruise? Like I think tlaf was getting at the idea of just taking the time off to clear receptors so you're body responds to what you take next cycle and you mitigate sides. 

 

This is where I've never understood cruise blast protocols. But we're all different. I've never run super high doses and I don't turn into a 10 year old girl as soon as I stop pinning so the down time is easy enough for me and in fact I enjoy being off for the fact my energy and mood are more consistent. 

 

I'm saying just TRT if you have to so you don't feel fucked. I know I don't come back to how I would like to feel when off and I'm sure others also.

 

Cruise should just be TRT if you need it. Otherwise cycle on and off responsibliy if you still can.

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If you are a someone who competes in bodybuilding and powerlifting etc year round then blast/cruise has its place mostly so you don't lose any of that momentum between comps and to give your body a slight break. Where people go wrong is as there blasts gets bigger their cruises get bigger too and it just defeats the entire purpose of it in my opinion. The purpose of the cruise from an athletes point of view is as I said above - to maintain momentum and keep as much as possible of what you have gained in the blast. Whilst at the same time bringing everything apart from your natural testosterone level back into normal range without the roller coaster ride which can be coming off and going back on - so blood pressure, estrogen, liver and kidney health etc. The only way that's going to happen is to mimic a normal natural level of testosterone by using a dose that will do that. A replacment dose (trt). People's opinions on what is trt usually depends on how much they blast. The Idiot who blasts 5000mg a week and 800mg of dbol a day will probably have a different opinion on what a cruise is to a person who uses 600mg test and 400mg deca as their blast. But in reality both people's cruises should be exactly the same otherwise it's just pointless and might as well blast 52 weeks of the year.

 

Coming off for 6 weeks is worthless.

 

The gear is going to taper itself off and estrogen will rise and you aren't going to be able to recover properly so what's the point. if you can't recover fully in the timeframe you have given yourself off then you need longer off or just stay on.

 

The worst thing you can do is just come off for a short random amount of time like 6 weeks then go back on, your body is just going to think wtf.

 

Just  my opinion though of course.

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2 hours ago, I Declare War said:

 

I'm saying just TRT if you have to so you don't feel fucked. I know I don't come back to how I would like to feel when off and I'm sure others also.

 

Cruise should just be TRT if you need it. Otherwise cycle on and off responsibliy if you still can.

So basically what you're saying here is come off to let your body come back to normal (in six weeks) then take artificial test at a trt dosage before blasting again.. umm that's just dumb to be honest man. Like it's just common sense not to do that lol. If you're gonna go off you may as well go off until you are ready to hit it properly. Let's go off, get back to normal then take TRT to mimic being back to normal.. lol.

 

this is why I hate this topic. Nobody can function without fucking drugs. Where has the passion gone.

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I agree with realtalk on this. Depends on your reason for coming off. If you care about restarting natural test etc obviously cruising would be pretty pointless. But then so is using gear in the first place if you care about that.

 

If you just want to give your body a break and let the build-up of catabolic shit in your body f*ck off but don't care about your natural test then I don't see any issue with cruising on 100-150mg test a week or similar.

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Definitely some good discussion on this thread.

Tbh I've been off for awhile (not aaages) now and I feel fine. Defs a mind over matter thing. Just tapered off kept lifting and eating good food and been fine.  As discussed I don't really compete and shit so I don't think It's something I need to do. 

In future just gonna suck it up and take time off and not be a pussy lol. Actually nice to have a break I guess, and gives me something to look forward to next cycle.
 

 

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Cruising you will retain more strength/size but not respond as well when you blast. 

 

Coming off you will lose more strength/size but respond better when you go back on. 

 

 

There are pros and cons to each but at at the end of the day it's probably not going to make a huge difference either way and comes down to personal preference. For me going forward I'm going to do 12-16 week cycles and come off for 8-12 weeks. 

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Hi Marty.. I would think 6 weeks is on the low side due to the half life of longer esters to obtain overall health benefits to the cardiovascular system.. Not something most younger people consider, but more of a concern as you get older..

 

LV hypertrophic adaptation, with the accompanying fibrosis (hardening) of myocardium and arterial tissue due to exogenous hormone use takes time to reverse (if it ever fully does)..

 

Renal and hepatic systems might benefit from a TRT dose, and a shorter time off, but from papers I've seen the cardiovascular system needs closer to 3-6 months to get optimal benefits..

 

Its much of a lottery coming off, some people seem not to have issue, whereas others never fully recover.. 

 

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4 hours ago, Daz69 said:

Hi Marty.. I would think 6 weeks is on the low side due to the half life of longer esters to obtain overall health benefits to the cardiovascular system.. Not something most younger people consider, but more of a concern as you get older..

 

LV hypertrophic adaptation, with the accompanying fibrosis (hardening) of myocardium and arterial tissue due to exogenous hormone use takes time to reverse (if it ever fully does)..

 

Renal and hepatic systems might benefit from a TRT dose, and a shorter time off, but from papers I've seen the cardiovascular system needs closer to 3-6 months to get optimal benefits..

 

Its much of a lottery coming off, some people seem not to have issue, whereas others never fully recover.. 

 

 

Good post Daz. The younger ones calling me dumb just are not looking at it from my perspective. For me health and fitness are priority over size and strength.

 

6 weeks sure is on the low side... longer would likely be more beneficial as you say. Fully agree.

 

For me personally after 6 weeks off I start to feel sluggish and performace in the bedroom becomes a challenge. By then I throw the towel in and start up TRT. Haha

 

Sure if you're a bigshot bodybuilder / gymrat wanting to maintain momentum and prioritise size and/or strength then why come off? No point being random as Realtalk put it.

 

For me, random does it just fine.

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If health and fitness is your priority, then why even use gear?

 

Also wouldn't it be better to just go on TRT rather than coming off at all if you're only going to come off for less than the time required to get actual benefits from it? It seems like you'd be getting the negatives from both options (cruise and cycling off) and none of the positives.

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22 minutes ago, PETN said:

If health and fitness is your priority, then why even use gear?

 

Also wouldn't it be better to just go on TRT rather than coming off at all if you're only going to come off for less than the time required to get actual benefits from it? It seems like you'd be getting the negatives from both options (cruise and cycling off) and none of the positives.

 

Because size and strength are still a driver for me. I enjoy experimenting with gear and pushing the limits from time to time. Can't be all work and no play, gotta have some fun. I accept that there are risks.

 

6 weeks will still give you the benefits. Kind of like the 80/20 rule I imagine... you get 80% of the benefit for being off that long but to get the other benefits Daz talks abodut you'd need to be off for another 12-16 weeks, which is too long of being off to accumulate mass over time. No science here, just how I see it.

 

Depends on what level you're on whether you should use straight through from blast to cruise. For a Mr. Olympia competitor where every % matters to get the best placing possible, then sure - stay on and cruise like a battleship. For the average gym rat (every AAS using gymgoer in NZ I'd argue) and non top tier pro it doesn't matter. Stay off for as long as you can talk yourself into and take a pinning holiday and enjoy other aspects of life.

 

Sure, you can go on TRT dosage straight away but if you're still working downstairs and feeling jacked then why? I'd rather wait it out until I feel I need that first TRT dose.

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29 minutes ago, I Declare War said:

6 weeks will still give you the benefits. Kind of like the 80/20 rule I imagine... you get 80% of the benefit for being off that long but to get the other benefits Daz talks abodut you'd need to be off for another 12-16 weeks, which is too long of being off to accumulate mass over time. No science here, just how I see it.

 

Probably more like you get zero benefits being off for the first 4 or 5 weeks that you wouldn't get from cruising then are only just starting to get the benefits at week 6. The fact you feel like shit is probably an indication that your test has hit zero and hasn't restarted yet. 

 

No scientific journals here either but I would have thought that the next 4 or whatever weeks where your pituitary starts producing LH and signalling your testes to start test production again are the important ones.

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Good debate. I guess it depends on how you value the benefits. Just the fact that I'm not pinning for 6 or so weeks makes it worthwhile coming right off to me. If I can still bang the missus hard and have good workouts that's even more of a plus. Once that's gone it's a hassle. 

 

Guess I just need to harden up. ;)

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I don't understand the point of running a TRT dose AFTER coming off just to blast again. I understand (but in most cases don't agree with) going straight from a blast to a TRT but going cold turkey to a trt to a heavy blast just makes no sense. Maybe I'm just a meat head...

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I can see where IDW is coming from, its after 6 weeks you really start to notice the effects of coming off, low sex drive, feeling flat, losing strength/size etc. So he can get a small break and still avoid the worse effects of coming off. You could argue 6 weeks isn't worth it but its probably better than no time off.

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Yeah surely that would severely f*ck your body up and confuse the f*ck out of it. It would be like, I'm not getting this exogenous hormone anymore, I better start stuff back up. Then bang you start shooting up shit again and its like WTF. Surely that process can't be good for your body lol.

(I have no scientific evidence to back this up obviously...)

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To illustrate my line of thinking I've quickly mocked up a graph.

 

The question it asks is - when to take the first dose for the cruise / TRT. As I've stated, my approach is "when I feel like my body needs it".

 

The Red line on the graph is how it feels to me that the levels drop.

 

The Blue line is when I feel like I need my first TRT / cruise shot.

 

The Orange line is how in reality my hormone levels may be dropping. Or, maybe how others in this thread perceive it to drop.

 

The Green line is the level of hormone needed to sustain a natural level of testosterone in the body.

 

We need to remember that levels of hormone in the body are added to when injecting exogenous testosterone. So, any time you add hormones to your body and it goes over the Green TRT line you're still on cycle.

 

For this reason, without frequent blood testing... I think the best approach is to take the first shot when you first feel you need it.

 

If you don't need TRT or don't subscribe to cruising, then all the better for you. Go through a PCT and go through the process. Me, I just don't recover to acceptable levels, so I do it like this.

 

Those saying this confuses the body and makes it think WTF... I don't buy into that. Blasting hormones is what makes the body think WTF. That's my opinion.

Blast-into-cruise_TRT.png

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^^ that's all guess work lol. Why not dontour cycle. Go off. After 6 weeks go get bloods. If still suppressed wait another 2 weeks get more bloods. If they are now ok then ok go back on. If not wait a few weeks. But ohhhh probably way too much common sense in this line of thinking for it to considered and probably too much effort for the lazy fucks who can't train without gear.

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5 hours ago, trainlikeafreak said:

^^ that's all guess work lol. Why not dontour cycle. Go off. After 6 weeks go get bloods. If still suppressed wait another 2 weeks get more bloods. If they are now ok then ok go back on. If not wait a few weeks. But ohhhh probably way too much common sense in this line of thinking for it to considered and probably too much effort for the lazy fucks who can't train without gear.

 

Woah there nelly...  yes it is hahahaha

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I get my bloodwork done once or twice a year, but not to see if the drugs are out of my system. Either when off everything (been off 10 weeks now... preparing for a kid) or just when cruising on TRT and way out of a blast. Your system's gonna be out of wack in and after a blast anyway... no point.

 

Going by feel as to when to start TRT up is definitely not an issue. If I was actually a competitive bodybuilder trying to be serious I would just transition into cruise directly from the blast, to eliminate any chance of hitting baseline / zero test. But I'm not so why bother.

 

Retarded saying it's all guess work what I do. It's a reasoned and low maintenance approach well suited to my situation. Works well and will continue to.

 

Question I ask... am I the lazy f*ck that can't train without gear? Do you have something against TRT? I have abundant Test and abundant HCG so why would I bother come off really? At the moment I'm just working on getting the swimmer count up so that I can freeze a good sample. Going well too I might add alternating every couple of weeks with HCG and Clomid. Frozen semen is good for 12 years so after this I won't be bothering coming off much anymore apart from the month or so after a blast.

 

 

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3 hours ago, I Declare War said:

I get my bloodwork done once or twice a year, but not to see if the drugs are out of my system. Either when off everything (been off 10 weeks now... preparing for a kid) or just when cruising on TRT and way out of a blast. Your system's gonna be out of wack in and after a blast anyway... no point.

 

Going by feel as to when to start TRT up is definitely not an issue. If I was actually a competitive bodybuilder trying to be serious I would just transition into cruise directly from the blast, to eliminate any chance of hitting baseline / zero test. But I'm not so why bother.

 

Retarded saying it's all guess work what I do. It's a reasoned and low maintenance approach well suited to my situation. Works well and will continue to.

 

Question I ask... am I the lazy f*ck that can't train without gear? Do you have something against TRT? I have abundant Test and abundant HCG so why would I bother come off really? At the moment I'm just working on getting the swimmer count up so that I can freeze a good sample. Going well too I might add alternating every couple of weeks with HCG and Clomid. Frozen semen is good for 12 years so after this I won't be bothering coming off much anymore apart from the month or so after a blast.

 

 

Wasn't directly referring to you about being lazy but majority of people these days can't train without steroids. nice one saying I'm retardrd when you literally are guessing/assuming your body is ready.. lol you're telling yourself what you want to believe. Just be honest with yourself and say you can't handle being off any longer than 6 weeks when truth is you probably need to be. And you have low test..? Maybe from the ridiculous cycles you used to log about back in the day? Seems a bit silly for a scientist. So don't come on here preaching all kinds of bullshit when the truth is people like you are why forums get a bad wrap.

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