I Declare War Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 I like Dallas' physique... but does he have anything exceptional? I wouldn't be bothered at all if he placed really well... but I'm not sure I can ever see him winning. Heath has arms, Ramy's a massive freak, Dexter has supersymmetry... Dallas has a lot that's great but nothing that's exceptional (maybe apart from balance?) Hope he does well. Terrymundo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Declare War Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Skeletor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 5 hours ago, I Declare War said: Not exactly weak is he ? Some of the pros are so ridiculously strong they make powerlifters look weak, especially on the bench and squat. Guys like him and Kai move massive weight like it's a warm up. I Declare War 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 Just saw a video of Dallas squatting 265kg for 10 reps then benching 220kg x 3 unassisted then carried on for more assisted. Freaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtalk Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 Often you will find their 1rm maxes are not that much bigger than their set of 8 or 5. Where a powerlifters set of 8 is often quite far from their Max single. Of course always exceptions to that but generally so. That's what I have taken note of anyway over all the years including from my own training too. Lots of bodybuilders would out 12 a powerlifter but the Max singles would be the opposite. Iv seen bbers in NZ do 10 reps of 260 deadlift and they can't get 300 for 1. I can't do 260x10. Another guy did 260x5 squat but I doubt he would be getting much past 280 for a single. Steve orton is another one who does big weights for good sets - some bloody impressive stuff, well at least he used to but I doubt his 1 rep maxes would be that amazing. Also compare apples with apples these are the top bodybuilders. Not Olympia class bbers compared to powerlifters down here in NZ lol. But yea no denying they are very strong. Strong is strong after all. I Declare War 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainlikeafreak Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Skeletor said: Just saw a video of Dallas squatting 265kg for 10 reps then benching 220kg x 3 unassisted then carried on for more assisted. Freaks. Dallas is just a freak. Immaculate form too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrix Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 I like a comment that Kevin Mentioned in one of his recent interviews, something like todays bodybuilders look more like (American) Football Players that have turned to Bodybuilding. He refers to them being bigger - bigger feet, faces, necks etc but not better. Its just pushing the window of how much size people can put on before their body or health falters but from a long term fan of BodyBulding I dont think its better.I'll still watch the Olympia as I follow some of the athletes but I'd rather see dramatic proportions on a relatively lighter frame with small joints, a wasp like waist and full muscle bellys- ala Flex Wheeler than these guys at 275lb anyday. That Dallas McCarver is one strong guy and seems to have a really good attitude to the sport and I agree his technique is very good, I just think the sport has evolved to a point where this current crop of big pro's just dont look that great anymore IMO when compared to the guys from the 90's- the extreme mass is their but the class, proportions and ideals seem to have gone. They are so big and full that even while being pretty lean they just dont seem to have that look of the guys from the 90's who were so drawn in their faces that you know they had been to hell and back to get into great shape. Many of the top guys these days seem to still have double chins on stage which is unusual. When you analyze the differences between now and the 90's the only difference is the improvements in the drug use/regimes as the diets and training have stayed relatively the same. I dont know where Levrone will place but I take my hat to him for pushing himself to get back up there amongst these freaky guys. I hope he comes in and suprises a few people. I Declare War 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Declare War Posted September 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 Great post Matrix! Well said. I agree that some appear to be pushing it too far. Bodybuilders were doing that in the 90's as well though, and look where it's led them - to an early grave. Andreas Munzer, Mike Matarazzo, Nasser El Sonbaty, Sonny Schmidt... just to name a few. One of the current crop that I'd like to call out is Justin Compton. He's just taken it too far in my opinion. Sure, some guys look old when they're young, naturally, but this guy.. he's 24 and looking 54 in many ways. Ramy's not too far off, and I've seen a fair few rather recent Phil videos where he just looks tweaked out and definitely not at peace with the world! Let's hope Levrone can surprise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrix Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 I Declare War - Agreed, I think alot of those guys were sort of pioneering alot of combinations in the early 90's which contributed to this - Munzer especially. I think body building has just moved too far away from this And become just game of who can pack enough size onto their frames fast enough to be competitive but without taking time to bring in the detail and work on the weak points. I think alot of these guys are growing so fast they just dont get complete physiques like the Flex's and Shawn's of yesteryear where the proportions are all great and with very few weak points. I Declare War and Skeletor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Declare War Posted September 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 That there is perfection. Matrix and Skeletor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 It's like they focus so hard on being full they just don't get as separated and dry as guys used to get. I Declare War and Matrix 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrix Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 That pretty much sums up exactly what I am trying to get across Harry. You see all these freakily muscled guys both in Open and 212 and the have massive quads, shoulders etc and are super vascular but the deep separation between the muscle heads and groups just seems to go. Its like they are so big and full that what should be a deep separation line just gets pushed up to the surface like and over inflated balloon. HarryB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Yep and where guys would err on the side of caution when it came to loading so as not to blow out their bellies. I mean imagine if it was a one day format... Phil would have lost the last 2 or 3 cos he looks a bit of a bloated mess on day 1 then tightens up for day 2. They also just don't seem to wanna work as hard for it, posing sucks for the most part and they can't do more than 2 or 3 minutes even holding their relaxed let alone doing compulsories. Pretty much why dexter kicks ass all the time and pretty much why I expect Levrone to do well. You see it all the way down to the local shows where guys and girls have crappy presentation and shitty tans. There's no polish anymore... well there is but it's rare. Edited September 7, 2016 by HarryB Skeletor and I Declare War 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrix Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 As a bit of nostalgia and showing Mass with Class how was this Class, 1991 NPC Nationals, I doubt an NPC Heavy Weight Class will ever be this deep again, De Mayo was the closest to Platz in overal thigh size that I have seen and Kevin and Flex looked awesome here. Also a young Ronnie before he went to the Worlds and got his card. THE BREAKDOWN: The greatest class in Nationals history featured an eight-time Mr. Olympia winner, two guys who finished second on multiple occasions, a third place finalist and a Masters Pro World winner, not to mention four future Hall of Famers. It's hard to dispute the collective impact the crew competing in the heavies at the 1991 NPC Nationals had on bodybuilding. Overall winner Kevin Levrone, runner-up Ken "Flex" Wheeler and eight-time Mr. O Coleman form what is arguably the greatest top three lineup of any contest ever, pro included. Although this show would prove to be Levrone's coronation into the pro ranks, Coleman would follow suit shortly after with a World Championships victory while Wheeler would rise to pro status the following year, at the NPC USAs. With Masters Pro World champ Bob Cicherillo in sixth, future Hall of Famer Chris Cormier finishing in seventh and the incredible amateur Edgar Fletcher filling out the eighth spot, the heavyweight class at the 1991 NPC Nationals was truly the class of classes. The final placements were as follows: 1st Kevin Levrone 2nd Ken (Flex) Wheeler 3rd Paul Demayo 4th Ronnie Coleman 5th Matt Mendenhall 6th Bob Cicherillo 7th Chris Cormier 8th Edgar Fletcher 9th Dean Caputo 10th John Sayegh I Declare War 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigken1985 Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 I just like how Kevin trains. Great to see a bodybuilder pushing real iron on compound movements. Ramy, Phil, and Kia really don't do the same. They seem to either be on machines or lifting light shit. Looks like the powers to be have brought back Kevin for a rivalry with Phil, where Kevin's physique I'd the direction the sport needs to go. I can't see it retaining much interest if it does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Declare War Posted September 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 Kai doesn't train heavy? He trains smart, lower weights when depleted... but he trains very heavy otherwise. Here he is doing 220kg Incline Presses: Ramy trains with similar weights I believe. Chris Cormier is over in Kuwait at the moment and mentioned that the weights he is hoisting are over and above eveyone else there (such as Roelly Winklaar and Nathan De Asha). And Phil? Who knows what he's doing... you may have a point with regards to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigken1985 Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 49 minutes ago, I Declare War said: Kai doesn't train heavy? He trains smart, lower weights when depleted... but he trains very heavy otherwise. Here he is doing 220kg Incline Presses: Ramy trains with similar weights I believe. Chris Cormier is over in Kuwait at the moment and mentioned that the weights he is hoisting are over and above eveyone else there (such as Roelly Winklaar and Nathan De Asha). And Phil? Who knows what he's doing... you may have a point with regards to him. Na ramy is on machines most the time. Kia very rarely trains that heavy. Especially recently. End of the day some of these guys are just bubble guts. If someone could do powerlifting and bodybuilding at the same time somehow that would make a sick physique. Some have already done it I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETN Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Bigken1985 said: Na ramy is on machines most the time. Kia very rarely trains that heavy. Especially recently. End of the day some of these guys are just bubble guts. If someone could do powerlifting and bodybuilding at the same time somehow that would make a sick physique. Some have already done it I guess Stop embarrassing yourself by talking complete shit. You'd obviously end up with a worse physique doing that than if you focused only on bodybuilding. Much higher chance of injury too. I do however think some 'powerlifters' would benefit from doing bodybuilding type training for a decent amount of time and actually putting on muscle before/between competing. Apparently having muscle helps strength. Doing a powerlifting program while stuffing yourself with food and getting fat isn't what I mean either. Perhaps try doing a total of 32 reps in a workout lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigken1985 Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 5 hours ago, PETN said: Stop embarrassing yourself by talking complete shit. You'd obviously end up with a worse physique doing that than if you focused only on bodybuilding. Much higher chance of injury too. I do however think some 'powerlifters' would benefit from doing bodybuilding type training for a decent amount of time and actually putting on muscle before/between competing. Apparently having muscle helps strength. Doing a powerlifting program while stuffing yourself with food and getting fat isn't what I mean either. Perhaps try doing a total of 32 reps in a workout lol. Crikey. You really don't like other people's opinion do you. Must be the reptile Alpha genetics kicking in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 12 hours ago, Bigken1985 said: I just like how Kevin trains. Great to see a bodybuilder pushing real iron on compound movements. Ramy, Phil, and Kia really don't do the same. They seem to either be on machines or lifting light shit. Looks like the powers to be have brought back Kevin for a rivalry with Phil, where Kevin's physique I'd the direction the sport needs to go. I can't see it retaining much interest if it does not. I don't know why guys say this sort of thing. Pretty much all the huge guys built their physiques on hard heavy compounds. People talk about how weak Phil is.. go lift the same weights he does on the exercises he does. I mean he isn't back squatting or deadlifting a whole heap but he shifts a lot of weight. Hell at that level they all do. Most could be elite level powerlifters with a few changes to technique and training specifically for powerlifting. It's not the same for powerlifters transitioning to bodybuilding.. generally speaking anyway. I just never understand that argument. It's like Phil is doing his exercises with light weights or something lol he isn't benching but OK go to the hammer strength incline. Put 5 plates a side on it and crank out set after set for good reps. Sure some guys could do it, but no matter who you are that's heavy in that movement. I Declare War 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainlikeafreak Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 What's also important to note is tension... Tension on the muscle makes everything a whole lot harder... Bodybuilding isn't just about moving it from A to B. HarryB and I Declare War 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 Would it even be necessary for those guys to use heavy compounds realistically once they've built that size? With all the machines available to them nowadays that isolate the target muscles perfectly that would be a better bet wouldn't it? Obviously still compounds at higher reps but any real benefit to heavy triples etc? Still cool to see the odd few pushing heavy though. I love a bit of high rep leg and back training myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 39 minutes ago, Skeletor said: Would it even be necessary for those guys to use heavy compounds realistically once they've built that size? With all the machines available to them nowadays that isolate the target muscles perfectly that would be a better bet wouldn't it? Obviously still compounds at higher reps but any real benefit to heavy triples etc? Still cool to see the odd few pushing heavy though. I love a bit of high rep leg and back training myself. Well this is the thing. Once you have that size and if you're a genetic super responder like they are at that level then yeah do they need to keep risking injury. But you know just watch the training vids, most of them lift crazy heavy and they don't do it on 3 exercises, they do it a whole workout. Cos drugs aside that's what works. Skeletor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted September 8, 2016 Report Share Posted September 8, 2016 Imagine the total volume of weight shifted after Platz's leg day . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtalk Posted September 8, 2016 Report Share Posted September 8, 2016 Did he qualify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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