Daz69 Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Why you should never frontload ('kickstart') a cycle: homeostasis Basically, all bodybuilders are in a battle against homeostasis. We try to overcome the body's tendency to not gain mass by eating more food, training more frequently or harder, taking more supplements, and so on. The idea being that more of [whatever] sends a stronger message for protein synthesis. Let's call all these compounds and techniques 'growth factors'. Well eventually, as we all know, these growth factors stop working. We ramp up the training intensity, take more creatine and so on, but growth plateaus regardless. You may be on a bulk cramming down the burgers, but the body finds a way to overcome this and prevent the growth message getting through - probably by elevating myostatin levels, among other mechanisms. At this point bodyfat may go up quickly, but LBM gain is closing in on zero net growth. So we have to take a break, usually shrink back a bit, and let the body get used to the absence of all these growth factors - creating a new 'normal' or set-point. In the process myostatin and all the other inhibitory mechanisms drop back too - with a slight lag, hence the loss of mass. At this point, hopefully we're holding more mass than when we started the last bulking cycle, and now we're ready to go and repeat it all over again, in the hope of retaining even more at the end of it; rinse repeat; rinse repeat. Steroids fit into this homeostatic cycle in exactly the same way as the other growth factors, albeit to a much higher degree. The growth benefit they confer is not an absolute factor. Just like with increasing training intensity or food intake, it's the relative change compared to what you were doing before that accounts for their benefit. To make this obvious, let's use an example: Person A has been on a cycle of 1000mg test for a while and his growth has plateaued. So he increases the dose by 500mg for the next 10 weeks (it could just as easily be a different compound he's adding instead, btw). And suddenly, he experiences some new growth. Just what we want and what we would expect. Person B has also been training for years and his growth is at a plateau. So he's just starting a cycle, which is 500mg test total for 10 weeks. In other words, they are both doing exactly the same thing in adding 500mg testosterone to their bodies after hitting a plateau. But all other things being equal, who is going to gain more from that 500mg over the next 10 weeks? No prizes for guessing Person B. Person B is experiencing a dramatic change in his testosterone levels of several multiples of what he produces naturally. Meanwhile Person A was only increasing his testosterone level by 50%. For Person A to even have a chance at a similar result, he'd probably need to take something like 3-4000mg, which would be a relatively similar increase. Now if you take this pattern, and programme it into just a regular cycle, you can see that ultimately the most effective strategy for overcoming homeostasis on AAS is to continuously create as much relative change as you can. To be constantly tapering-up the dose from the lowest effective level. Now I ask anyone, if you intend to frontload your cycle with 1000mg of testosterone for a few weeks (or an oral steroid or whatever), how the f*ck do you plan on creating much relative change after? You're starting out so high, the only way up is through the stratosphere. And since it's only a frontload, your serum levels may actually start to decline after peaking in the first month! So fine, you'll bloat up quickly at first and it will look like an amazing idea because the changes come on fast and you'll leave Mr Tortoise behind. But good luck if you thought those bloated 10lbs were solid real muscle. And good luck maintaining that pace for a solid 12 weeks of continuous real growth while your testosterone levels flatten out or even decline. The body's homeostatic mechanisms kick in so quickly that you're fighting a losing battle from that point onwards. Meanwhile Mr Tortoise, who started out low and slow but keeps upping the dose, soon overtakes you despite still being on less AAS, all the while staying harder and drier and never once resembling the bloated watery Pufferfish you became thanks to your frontload. Which is why I say frontloading is one of the most retarded practices there is. By boosting AAS levels up to a peak within the first weeks, you are literally killing off your future growth potential. You're wasting your most effective tool for growth (relative change) by throwing it all in at the start. And you're deluding yourself that the rapid changes you saw were real keepable gains post-cycle. The clever approach to cycling - and indeed bodybuilding in general, given our battle with homeostasis - is to always be 'confusing' the body (and overcoming myostatin) by upping whatever variable you're playing with (be it food intake, training intensity, supplements or AAS) from a low starting point. Thus I advise guys to do the complete opposite of frontloading. Start your cycle on a dose that's barely over natural levels, so you can then spend the next 12-15+ weeks gradually raising the dose, achieving the solid relative change we all want, while still staying at a sensible level and without experiencing all the negative side-effects that high doses entail. This should be common sense, even on the most anecdotal level and to the most novice trainee - after all, we all know our bodies plateau sometime after we make a change. So to be constantly changing (periodising) and tapering up various compounds and strategies from their lowest effective level is self-evidently the most efficient way to build muscle. Terrymundo, FatGig, Clueless and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang_bang Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrymundo Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Please don't leave this forum daz Biggerbythedaynz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwicannon Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 7 hours ago, Terrymundo said: Please don't leave this forum daz Have to agree Mr Mundo all though some of Dazs post are just waaay to techo for a simple minded soul like myself, a lot of his input is so damn insightful and makes a shit load of sense! Cheers Daz this post really hits home with me here i was thinking i got it sussed then boom!! ...not even shiet! king 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinshady Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 nothing wrong with front loading if you have money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang_bang Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 3 hours ago, slinshady said: nothing wrong with front loading if you have money A wild vatani appears Clueless, ratz99, Terrymundo and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratz99 Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 4 hours ago, bang_bang said: A wild vatani appears LOL freshly joined 8 hours ago too. slinshady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinshady Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 It is true I have returned ratz99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrymundo Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 Where's my popcorn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeelang Posted September 8, 2016 Report Share Posted September 8, 2016 I would love to experiment more with doing meso-cycles between cruise dose + 250-500mg taper up-taper down with over-reaching done accordingly but it's just too much work for me right now. I think we could see more and more people looking at cycles like the way dieting and reverse dieting has changed over the last 10 years. What can you sneak "under the radar" so to speak, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 tapering up from the lowest' effective' level?...wouldnt front loaded up to this lowest effective level be the quickest way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted September 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 1 hour ago, woody said: tapering up from the lowest' effective' level?...wouldnt front loaded up to this lowest effective level be the quickest way? Anything over normal range should be considered as an ED (effective dose)... Increase food and train hard also.. Biggerbythedaynz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggerbythedaynz Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 Thanks for the recommended reading @Daz69 always great insight! More is not always more ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted September 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 I'm going to bump this as I think its relevant.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted January 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 Bump.. king and ratz99 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainJC Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 Front loading in general is a stupid idea best to kick start it with something fast acting , dbol or dianadrol 25mg dbol/25mg drol and let the long esters kick in, and i fully agree if upping the dose should be upping it during cycle and staying on that till you come off or till you " trt/cruise" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted January 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 2 hours ago, captainJC said: Front loading in general is a stupid idea best to kick start it with something fast acting , dbol or anadrol 25mg dbol/25mg drol and let the long esters kick in, and i fully agree if upping the dose should be upping it during cycle and staying on that till you come off or till you " trt/cruise" What do you think kick starting is..? its another name for frontloading.. Even long estered testosterones hit the blood stream after about 2 hours, peaking around 24.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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