Transgenders in strength sports

[Psyke]

So, I've lurked on and off on these boards for a fair while now, and I toy with strength training. I also happen to be FTM (female to male trans)

 

I am more than happy to have an open and honest conversation with anyone here who is willing to be open and reasonable (read: not a douchebag). 

 

For people who had been talking about the young kids transitioning, I volunteer my time helping families in this situation, I agree that the kids you see in the media come from families where it could be looked at that they are alternative. Have you ever thought those might be the families where their kids are comfortable about being open about what they are going through? They are also the families who are more comfortable with being open about things in the media, there are a lot of "normal" families going through this quietly at home with minimal fuss and fanfare. The suicide rates for trans youth are horrendous, reading a lot of the comments here I am not surprised . . . 

 

I think you would all be very surprised about how many trans people you meet in your day to day life, there are a shitload of us out there just wanting to live our lives. Unfortunately like with any other group of people, the ones you see in the media and on TV are not always a good representation of the community, they are usually the ones who no matter who or what they are would be screaming for attention. For me personally, I work full time, have a partner and a family. By and large I am a "normal" productive member of society. An ok looking guy with a fair shape and a beard who just happens to have been born female.

 

As for the competition side of things, this is where the judgemental asshat side of me comes out, I tend to agree with people here in that years and years of natural testosterone will give any MTF and advantage when competing in strength sports when competing in a womans class. I am happy to be thrown in a mens class and have to hold my own but going the other way there are always going to be questions asked. I have read the science and tried to approach it with an open mind but there is no fighting against the physical advantages that years of testosterone will give. 

 

As I said at the start, happy to talk to anyone, happy to debate too. I'm just going to request less douchbaggery, I have seen one too many funerals for bullied trans youth to have the patience for that.

[Skeletor]

Welcome Psyke.  I actually have numerous questions I could ask you if you're interested to answer them. Firstly when did you know in your mind you wanted to transition to a male? How did you go about it? For example with hormone replacement / operations etc? I'm guessing by you stating you have a beard that testosterone is the candy of choice? How did that firstly effect muscle growth and strength and longer term are you now on par strength wise as an average male or will you always be at a genetic disadvantage to someone who was born as male.  In regard to children what is the process of speaking to say a 5 year old who thinks they are of the opposite sex?  Let's say a 5 year old born as male acts and identifies as a female and the parents call you to speak to the child . What do you do and say?  Thanks in advance.

[PETN]

How did you and your partner have kids? (You say you have a family so guessing there's kids). Are you a gay female to male trannie who has a male partner or something?

 

Do you think that trans teens are killing themselves because of how other people view them or how they view themselves? I Would have thought the latter.

[Psyke]

19 hours ago, Skeletor said:

Welcome Psyke.  I actually have numerous questions I could ask you if you're interested to answer them. Firstly when did you know in your mind you wanted to transition to a male? How did you go about it? For example with hormone replacement / operations etc? I'm guessing by you stating you have a beard that testosterone is the candy of choice? How did that firstly effect muscle growth and strength and longer term are you now on par strength wise as an average male or will you always be at a genetic disadvantage to someone who was born as male.  In regard to children what is the process of speaking to say a 5 year old who thinks they are of the opposite sex?  Let's say a 5 year old born as male acts and identifies as a female and the parents call you to speak to the child . What do you do and say?  Thanks in advance.

 

In all honesty I can trace it back to at least before I was 7 or 8. I remember blowing out the candles of my 8th birthday cake and my birthday wish was "I wish I was born a boy", sounds cliche I know but it's true.

So far I have done 5 years of Testosterone and I had "top" (breast removal and chest masculinisation) surgery about 4 years ago now. I am on the waiting list for full surgery but at this stage my wait is 32 years.

The T has done a pretty good job of helping muscle and strength. I did a lot of work myself on that as well though. There are some trans guys who think T is a "solve all" solution and they take it without doing anything else to help themselves and then wonder why they aren't getting the changes of body shape they wanted. I did it sloghtly differently, I started strength training before starting T and once I was on T I started a process of building the body shape I had always wanted. I will still never be as strong as someone who was born male and who has had the benefit of having T their whole life. Not least of which because I am only 5ft6 with small hands but I can hold my own well enough and can outlift many natural guys in the gym (with better form  ).

 

If I got the parents of a 5 year old call me I would first meet the parents for coffee, let them sound out on me what they are noticing and what it was they led them to seek me out. Then i would detail my history and my experiences. Realistically at 5 years old there is never going to be any medical intervention, it's actually not possible (despite recent media beatups) however there are some supportive behaviours that the parents and community can engage in that will make the childs life a lot easier. At that age I wouldn't labeling any child with anything, it would simply be a matter of letting the child be who they wanted to be and supporting them in that. By doing that you get away from the "it's just a phase" issue by giving them the freedom to go back to being their original gender if it was just a phase but on the flip side, iif they are trans you will also be giving them the love and freedom to be who they need to me. 

I believe when it comes to parenting decisions unconditional love is the most important thing you can give your kids, followed closely by a strong sense of self and self esteem, no matter what life has thrown at you.

[Psyke]

17 hours ago, PETN said:

How did you and your partner have kids? (You say you have a family so guessing there's kids). Are you a gay female to male trannie who has a male partner or something?

 

Do you think that trans teens are killing themselves because of how other people view them or how they view themselves? I Would have thought the latter.

 

I'm lucking in that my partner already had kids when I got with him so I have ended up with an amazing family. I have known other guys who have their own kids (transitioned post kids) and others with female partners who have done IVF.

I have run the full rainbow: straight girl --> bi --> lesbian --> straight guy --> now gay guy. The reality though is that I have always been bisexual and have always known I wanted to be male, I just didn't have any words for it (or know it was possible) until I was a bit older.

 

I think the teens thing is a double edged sword, the self esteem thing is huge but it's also damned hard to have good self esteem when society by and large sees you as a freak (and often treats you as such). I mean as a fairly strong person, having read my way through some of the comments in this thread, I still had to pause and actually think about whether I wanted to stand up and say anything. I hate to think what a teen who isn't as confident or sure about themselves would think having read some of the commenst here, and this is only a part of society (and usually a fairly accepting one I have found)

[I Declare War]

Great post Psyke!

 

I'm not trans, but I do wear this trans colored friendship bracelet in support of you guys. It reminds me to be nice to everyone. 

[Realtalk]

Waiting list of 32 years? This is for public funded surgery? How much would it cost you to go to Thailand to have it done, and how much privately in NZ? I was watching some stuff on TV and they said they are the best at it all over there?

[Psyke]

12 minutes ago, Realtalk said:

Waiting list of 32 years? This is for public funded surgery? How much would it cost you to go to Thailand to have it done, and how much privately in NZ? I was watching some stuff on TV and they said they are the best at it all over there?

 

Unfortunately the surgery for the trans guys is a bit more complicated so I would be looking at almost US$100k which just isn't doable for me at this stage. As it I I have spent 15k on surgery and about 2k on specialists etc so far.
For the guys some of the best surgeons are in the US or Europe. The Thai guys give it a go but it's not their specialty.

 

So yeah, 32 years on the public waiting list  

[Skeletor]

What does the surgery consist of? What do they do? 

[Psyke]

18 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

What does the surgery consist of? What do they do? 

 

 

http://www.phallo.net/procedures/

 

Essentially taking a heap of skin, fat and nerves from a site (usually the forearm) and using that the create a penis that should in theory have full sensation.

Urethra is lengthened and runs through is too

Everything behind is closed up and scrotal implants are inserted.

Stage 2 involves some form of erectile device 

[Skeletor]

2 hours ago, Psyke said:

 

 

http://www.phallo.net/procedures/

 

Essentially taking a heap of skin, fat and nerves from a site (usually the forearm) and using that the create a penis that should in theory have full sensation.

Urethra is lengthened and runs through is too

Everything behind is closed up and scrotal implants are inserted.

Stage 2 involves some form of erectile device 

That's amazing. Didn't realise surgery had come that far.  Do you feel the cost outweighs the function of it though in regard to being able to use it? For example if you are having to have a device installed to achieve an erection and the fact that ejaculaton is where 90% of the good feeling happens is it worth doing? Or is it more to feel like a male and I guess give pleasure to your partner?  Are you still able to and do you use and feel pleasure through what you were born with? Sorry if to personal just quite an interesting topic . Thankyou for your responses so far.

[Psyke]

2 hours ago, Skeletor said:

That's amazing. Didn't realise surgery had come that far.  Do you feel the cost outweighs the function of it though in regard to being able to use it? For example if you are having to have a device installed to achieve an erection and the fact that ejaculaton is where 90% of the good feeling happens is it worth doing? Or is it more to feel like a male and I guess give pleasure to your partner?  Are you still able to and do you use and feel pleasure through what you were born with? Sorry if to personal just quite an interesting topic . Thankyou for your responses so far.

 

Technically orgasim is where 90% of the good feeling happens and that's still possible (that's why they take nerves as well as just tissue)

To me the biggest part is feeling complete, and not being quite so concerned about things in say changing rooms etc. Sex is a part of it but it's more about the other 99% of my life.

 

Most guys in my situation don't use what they have currently, however I go with a "if it works, why not?" mentality  

 

No problem on the question answering, all the youth work I have done means I'm pretty open and honest, and I would rather people actually had a chance to talk and learn about this stuff than to make assumptions  

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

interesting stuff Psyke, thanks for joining in and providing some ignorant folk like me insight in to your world

[nate225]

Fascinating read Psyke! 

We can all speculate about what we think this stuff is like but to hear from someone who's walked through it is quite different.

Appreciate the time taken to educate us! 

 

It was interesting your stance on mtf in sports was the same as most here, probably the pragmatic approach would to manage sport by genetic sex rather than gender?

[maccaz]

I have definitely benefited from your point of view Psyke and now regret my narrow minded comments. Well done 

[Pseudonym]

12 hours ago, Psyke said:

I mean as a fairly strong person, having read my way through some of the comments in this thread, I still had to pause and actually think about whether I wanted to stand up and say anything.

I'm really pleased you did, Psyke. For two reasons...

 

Firstly, you've increased the quality of this topic tenfold! You've put a human face on this, and articulated your points well, giving the rest of us a good insight into the issue.

 

Secondly, my guess is that many FTM transgenders seek out gym and bodybuilding forums - because after all, physique development is a major part of the transition. So we probably have a higher-than-average transgender readership, particularly in topics like this one. Hopefully these people will see your comments and find comfort knowing that someone else is in the same boat as them.

 

So thanks for posting Psyke. Keep it up.

[PETN]

I stand by everything I've ever said or written on this forum and irl 100%. When I sign a letter 'Yours Sincerely' whether it's a procedural legal document demanding money or a cover letter accompanying my CV where I've left out about half my past employment history saying I'd be great at the job etc I fucking mean it. I have never apologised for anything before in my life.

[Bruce Al]

shuddup petn

[I Declare War]

Nothing wrong with apologising for mistakes PETN! It doesn't make you any less of a man.

[HarryB]

8 minutes ago, I Declare War said:

Nothing wrong with apologising for mistakes PETN! It doesn't make you any less of a man.

 

I think what he's saying is that he doesn't view anything he says or does as a mistake so no apologies required. 

[I Declare War]

24 minutes ago, HarryB said:

 

I think what he's saying is that he doesn't view anything he says or does as a mistake so no apologies required. 

 

Ah. 

[PETN]

1 hour ago, I Declare War said:

Nothing wrong with apologising for mistakes PETN! It doesn't make you any less of a man.

 

And there I was hoping it would turn me into the beautiful woman who I know I was born as

[I Declare War]

Oh well!

[Psyke]

16 minutes ago, PETN said:

 

And there I was hoping it would turn me into the beautiful woman who I know I was born as

 

Well you would have the legs to pull off a skirt . . . 

 

In all reality though everyone one these boards has surprised me, I thought after having read all the comments that people would have mocked the shit out of me. You are the only person to have given the response I was expecting from people.

I can't say I actually care enough to go back and read what you are refusing to apologise for. You comment about never having apologised for anything before in your life tells me all I need to know about you. If you don't want to learn and grow as a person that's all good with me, it's your life and your choice.

 

[PETN]

A year or so ago I was reading a novel where the main character was also a male trapped in another body which was not his own. To be fair it did sound pretty shit for him. In the end all it took for everyone to realise who he really was, was for a chick to show interest, and him pashing the girl. Book was called The Frog Prince. Well worth a read.