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1 hour ago, PETN said:

 

Synergistic effect = gyno?

Nope not for me personally anyway PETN

 

 Tren gave me lean fast recomp however i couldn't eat enough too add any notible size by adding the dbol "really" filled me out until the enanthates kicked in and i found i could eat more.

 

Im sure we are going to get the cut and paste warriors preaching scripture that this doesn't work , bad idea blah blah..

 

If you dont try something new or go against the grain how the f*ck do we know if it works or not?....what didn't work for Fred may work perfectly for Dave but your never gonna know until you jump in the deep end...

 

f*ck following the sheep 

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IMO: From the moment exogenous hormones are introduced, homeostasis will interact to counter any benefits achieved over the longer term..
After the initial upregulation in AR expression due to sustained elevated testosterone levels some desensitization occurs which leads to a decrease in mRNA levels acting as a negative feedback loop. In several cases it was found that the AR content increased but the binding affinity for androgens decreased resulting in a net loss of testosterone utilization.
Slowly building up to a maximal dose, could likely minimise side effects, whilst keeping ahead of homeostatic mechanisms trying to play catch up..
Jumping in at maximal dose from day-1, I personally believe it is too much too soon... 

Obtaining maximal blood concentrations from week-1 could result in elevated SHBG, aromatase, 5-alpha reductase, P4, PRL, cortisone expression etc' negating progress sooner..

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12 hours ago, maccaz said:

my mate david (crazy facials knows him), is going to start a cycle of 500mg test e, 400 tren e.

He has done tren ace before and had no issue with sides so is not worried about that.

 

Open to input on whether 500 test, 400 tren is optimal? rather not a heap more than that but if need be can bump up a bit.

 

question, would it be worth jumpstarting it via one of the two following methods, and which would be preferable?

 

Option 1: 

250mg test e 2x per week weeks 1-12

200mg tren e 2x per week weeks 1-12

30mg dbol EOD weeks 1-3

 

 

Option 2:

250mg test e 2x per week, weeks 1-12

200mg tren 2x per week, weeks 1-12

100mg tren A EOD, weeks 1-3

 

Option 3:

dont try jump start at all

 

 

Frontloading is illogical and counterproductive. If you want to add DBol, do so in the latter half of the cycle when you need another anabolic stimulus, never at the beginning when you're getting more than enough from the test.

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9 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

Frontloading is illogical and counterproductive. If you want to add DBol, do so in the latter half of the cycle when you need another anabolic stimulus, never at the beginning when you're getting more than enough from the test.

 

Couldn't you front load with the dbol for a couple of weeks while you're waiting for your enanthate to kick in then drop it then bring it back in later in the cycle for that extra stimulus. Isn't that the logic behind front loading? For impatient people? 

 

And slowly building up to stay ahead of homeostasis? Isn't that just conjecture? Your body starts to shut down once you start taking an exogenous product regardless of dosing doesn't it? 

 

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He's not talking about shutdown or testosterone level homeostasis at all i dont think.

 

Staying ahead of catabolic hormone buildup and reduced AR binding affinity - homeostasis in terms of muscle gaining etc.

 

Thats what i took from it anyway.

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7 hours ago, HarryB said:

 

Couldn't you front load with the dbol for a couple of weeks while you're waiting for your enanthate to kick in then drop it then bring it back in later in the cycle for that extra stimulus. Isn't that the logic behind front loading? For impatient people? 

 

And slowly building up to stay ahead of homeostasis? Isn't that just conjecture? Your body starts to shut down once you start taking an exogenous product regardless of dosing doesn't it? 

 

 

Hi Harry...

The enanthate starts to release into the blood after about 2 hours, its effects might not be visible for several weeks but its working, hormones act slowly... 

Yes, the body will start to shut down, but the greater the level of exogenous hormone administration the quicker estrogen, prolactin, progesterone, glucocorticoids etc become a problem...

 

People are too impatient..

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2 hours ago, PETN said:

He's not talking about shutdown or testosterone level homeostasis at all i dont think.

 

Staying ahead of catabolic hormone buildup and reduced AR binding affinity - homeostasis in terms of muscle gaining etc.

 

Thats what i took from it anyway.

 

Thats correct...

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18 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

Hi Harry...

The enanthate starts to release into the blood after about 2 hours, its effects might not be visible for several weeks but its working, hormones act slowly... 

Yes, the body will start to shut down, but the greater the level of exogenous hormone administration the quicker estrogen, prolactin, progesterone, glucocorticoids etc become a problem...

 

People are too impatient..

 

OK so hormones work slowly but he can get the almost instant feeling of benefits from putting dbol or something similar in the beginning that has a visible and physical effect in a matter of days. Our Dave isn't taking steroids for a subtle effect over time. He's trying to work out how to get the most effect in the time frame before he does the meet he's doing with Maccaz.

Edited by HarryB
autocorrect lol
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20 hours ago, HarryB said:

 

OK so hormones work slowly but he can get the almost instant feeling of benefits from putting dbol or something similar in the beginning that has a visible and physical effect in a matter of days. Our Dave isn't taking steroids for a subtle effect over time. He's trying to work out how to get the most effect in the time frame before he does the meet he's doing with Maccaz.

 

Hi Harry.... In that context he would be correct.. My concerns were over the longer term...

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