maccaz Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang_bang Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 If your mate Dave happens to be 9 weeks out from a PL meet, i'd suggest option 2. I'm not a fan of kickstarting with dbol as it'll likely leave Dave feeling not too healthy and with high estrogen for the rest of his cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 I'd start with dbol. Get into the cycle quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwicannon Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 Id run Tren Ace and Prop for the 1st 2wks alongside the enanthates, wouldn't hurt to run Dbol if Dave was that way inclined, Good synergy between Tren and Dbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETN Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 17 minutes ago, kiwicannon said: Good synergy between Tren and Dbol Synergistic effect = gyno? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtalk Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 Id just start it, perhaps front load it. Will make little difference tbh. 9 weeks plenty time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwicannon Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 1 hour ago, PETN said: Synergistic effect = gyno? Nope not for me personally anyway PETN Tren gave me lean fast recomp however i couldn't eat enough too add any notible size by adding the dbol "really" filled me out until the enanthates kicked in and i found i could eat more. Im sure we are going to get the cut and paste warriors preaching scripture that this doesn't work , bad idea blah blah.. If you dont try something new or go against the grain how the f*ck do we know if it works or not?....what didn't work for Fred may work perfectly for Dave but your never gonna know until you jump in the deep end... f*ck following the sheep PETN and HarryB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 IMO: From the moment exogenous hormones are introduced, homeostasis will interact to counter any benefits achieved over the longer term.. After the initial upregulation in AR expression due to sustained elevated testosterone levels some desensitization occurs which leads to a decrease in mRNA levels acting as a negative feedback loop. In several cases it was found that the AR content increased but the binding affinity for androgens decreased resulting in a net loss of testosterone utilization. Slowly building up to a maximal dose, could likely minimise side effects, whilst keeping ahead of homeostatic mechanisms trying to play catch up.. Jumping in at maximal dose from day-1, I personally believe it is too much too soon... Obtaining maximal blood concentrations from week-1 could result in elevated SHBG, aromatase, 5-alpha reductase, P4, PRL, cortisone expression etc' negating progress sooner.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 12 hours ago, maccaz said: my mate david (crazy facials knows him), is going to start a cycle of 500mg test e, 400 tren e. He has done tren ace before and had no issue with sides so is not worried about that. Open to input on whether 500 test, 400 tren is optimal? rather not a heap more than that but if need be can bump up a bit. question, would it be worth jumpstarting it via one of the two following methods, and which would be preferable? Option 1: 250mg test e 2x per week weeks 1-12 200mg tren e 2x per week weeks 1-12 30mg dbol EOD weeks 1-3 Option 2: 250mg test e 2x per week, weeks 1-12 200mg tren 2x per week, weeks 1-12 100mg tren A EOD, weeks 1-3 Option 3: dont try jump start at all Frontloading is illogical and counterproductive. If you want to add DBol, do so in the latter half of the cycle when you need another anabolic stimulus, never at the beginning when you're getting more than enough from the test. maccaz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwicannon Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 LMFAO was waiting for it ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 9 hours ago, Daz69 said: Frontloading is illogical and counterproductive. If you want to add DBol, do so in the latter half of the cycle when you need another anabolic stimulus, never at the beginning when you're getting more than enough from the test. Couldn't you front load with the dbol for a couple of weeks while you're waiting for your enanthate to kick in then drop it then bring it back in later in the cycle for that extra stimulus. Isn't that the logic behind front loading? For impatient people? And slowly building up to stay ahead of homeostasis? Isn't that just conjecture? Your body starts to shut down once you start taking an exogenous product regardless of dosing doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETN Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 He's not talking about shutdown or testosterone level homeostasis at all i dont think. Staying ahead of catabolic hormone buildup and reduced AR binding affinity - homeostasis in terms of muscle gaining etc. Thats what i took from it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 7 hours ago, HarryB said: Couldn't you front load with the dbol for a couple of weeks while you're waiting for your enanthate to kick in then drop it then bring it back in later in the cycle for that extra stimulus. Isn't that the logic behind front loading? For impatient people? And slowly building up to stay ahead of homeostasis? Isn't that just conjecture? Your body starts to shut down once you start taking an exogenous product regardless of dosing doesn't it? Hi Harry... The enanthate starts to release into the blood after about 2 hours, its effects might not be visible for several weeks but its working, hormones act slowly... Yes, the body will start to shut down, but the greater the level of exogenous hormone administration the quicker estrogen, prolactin, progesterone, glucocorticoids etc become a problem... People are too impatient.. HarryB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 hours ago, PETN said: He's not talking about shutdown or testosterone level homeostasis at all i dont think. Staying ahead of catabolic hormone buildup and reduced AR binding affinity - homeostasis in terms of muscle gaining etc. Thats what i took from it anyway. Thats correct... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) 18 hours ago, Daz69 said: Hi Harry... The enanthate starts to release into the blood after about 2 hours, its effects might not be visible for several weeks but its working, hormones act slowly... Yes, the body will start to shut down, but the greater the level of exogenous hormone administration the quicker estrogen, prolactin, progesterone, glucocorticoids etc become a problem... People are too impatient.. OK so hormones work slowly but he can get the almost instant feeling of benefits from putting dbol or something similar in the beginning that has a visible and physical effect in a matter of days. Our Dave isn't taking steroids for a subtle effect over time. He's trying to work out how to get the most effect in the time frame before he does the meet he's doing with Maccaz. Edited May 5, 2016 by HarryB autocorrect lol Bigken1985 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwicannon Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Exactly Harry and like everyone was saying frontload or kickstart with Dbol but hey theres no use arguing with Daz we will all just get lectured again and all the big words will come out lol HarryB and Realtalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 20 hours ago, HarryB said: OK so hormones work slowly but he can get the almost instant feeling of benefits from putting dbol or something similar in the beginning that has a visible and physical effect in a matter of days. Our Dave isn't taking steroids for a subtle effect over time. He's trying to work out how to get the most effect in the time frame before he does the meet he's doing with Maccaz. Hi Harry.... In that context he would be correct.. My concerns were over the longer term... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polo Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Me personally I would run t prop 1-3 with the ace while the e builds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 i beleive d/bol does put you in a more "annabolic state'allowing full benifit once the test kicks in.then up the oil doses later in cycle if you think its needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted May 7, 2016 Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 Let's be honest no amount of gear of fancy protocol is going to help Dave. Hopefully the placebo helps though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigken1985 Posted May 7, 2016 Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 Your mate Dave should stop being average af and stay natty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaz Posted May 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 Dave has passed away unfortunately. RIP Wookie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETN Posted May 7, 2016 Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 32 minutes ago, maccaz said: Dave has passed away unfortunately. RIP Probably wouldn't have happened if he was subject to WADA testing and squatted to IPF depth Bigken1985, bang_bang and Wookie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaz Posted May 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Bigken1985 said: Your mate Dave should stop being average af and stay natty Lol! Bigken1985 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigken1985 Posted May 7, 2016 Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 32 minutes ago, PETN said: Probably wouldn't have happened if he was subject to WADA testing and squatted to IPF depth Truth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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