Reasons for changing coaches

[HarryB]

Thought it might be interesting to see what motivates people to change coaches.. even if they are having success with the one they currently work with. 

 

I find that a lot of people will change to affiliate themselves with someone who has a higher profile #internetwhore more than anything else. 

 

I understand jumping ship if you're not getting the results you want or feeling like you've achieved as much as you can achieve with one coach. Even changing just for the sake of learning more makes sense. 

 

Anyway have been wondering about this lately. Would be interesting to hear from a coaches perspective how they felt about clients jumping ship :) 

 

Not intentionally posting this in relation to Maccaz but it did raise the question again for me so thought I'd see if anyone had any input. 

[maccaz]

some background for my reasoning for changing coach.

 

at the start of the year i joined the gym i am at now, with the intention to pay a semi coaching membership where i would get advice/help with form, while using wookie method programming. This would have worked out perfect.

 

this didnt really work out, they are busy and without being too up myself, they have not been coaching so long and even when @beastbuilder  came to my gym he was suprised at the level of form coaching the guys were receiving (i.e. not good)

 

this put me in crap situation where i do have major form issues, and can't expect wookie to do video assessment as so much to work on and he doesnt fully agree with assessing via video. so i was considering working with another guy in melbourne for form but then again im paying for 2 coaches. that guy woulda been 1 hour each way 2x a week which was a factor too.

 

so then when i got injured i had some talks with tom as he has experience with this specific injury, and rehabbing etc. he found some issues in my form looking at videos and knew what likely lead to the injury (confirmed by physio also) and how to strengthen weak areas and improve as a powerlifter overall. 

i feel with squat in particular, my legs are much stronger than my max squat, but form breaks down so much that im gonna hurt myself or fail, so im inefficient. same with bench and deadlift to some degree. so im wasting kgs not getting more technically proficient. 

 

so then i was back at the idea of working with thomas for form and wookie for programming which is just financially stupid as there is some overlap in the service i would be paying for.

 

tldr so cliffs:

 

i needed to improve in areas that were not coach 1's specialty. i was progressing perfectly well but that wouldnt continue forever and rather than continue ingraining bad things better to get it sorted now. easier to fix a 240kg squat than a 300kg squat i reckon. 

 coach 2 is very well known for improving that specific area. financially unrealistic to keep both coaches. 

if i lived near coach 1 i would do 1 on 1s as often as i could and wouldnt need to change. 

[Wookie]

At the end of the day it comes down to people usually deciding they'll be better off doing something different. 

Either performance, profile, financially, life-balance, etc etc

 

How do I feel if someone jumps ship? Fine, I do coaching as a hobby not a job, nor am I a slave owner.

I get far more annoyed when people don't follow programming and can't explain their reasons why.

 

[maccaz]

19 minutes ago, Wookie said:

At the end of the day it comes down to people usually deciding they'll be better off doing something different. 

Either performance, profile, financially, life-balance, etc etc

 

How do I feel if someone jumps ship? Fine, I do coaching as a hobby not a job, nor am I a slave owner.

I get far more annoyed when people don't follow programming and can't explain their reasons why.

 

 

Profile isn't necessarily a good thing when it comes to response times as well so need to be aware and consider that as a factor also.

 

to not follow programming would just be straight up retarded like you pay for it so you're only ripping yourself off ( I think I only added extra reps 3 times, it worked 2x and didn't the third time so didn't do it again lol) 

[HarryB]

When it comes to issues relating to specific training to make sure that an injury doesn't reoccur, wookie posted a great article about a lot of the ancillary things people get advised to do which in fact don't address the real problem but addresses the result of that problem. 

 

A lot of people seem to buy into a process because the new coach is charismatic and also is happy to tell them that while what they're doing is working it's not the correct or most efficient way to do things etc etc etc 

 

I recently had this myself where a client who I coached to a nationals win decided that someone else would be a better coach,  they bought into that persons protocol. Actually I've had that happen quite a few times ha ha ha for this particular person the new protocol didn't work in the way it was projected because the coach was all about changing everything and didn't take the time to learn the clients body and decided their science game was stronger than mine... actually cracked me up. Over complicated the process and client wound up looking well off their normal condition. What I'm sure other coaches would agree on is that we can look at what someone is doing with someone we have worked with and "see" these things are going to happen. 

 

Well it's a learning curve. Thanks for your input guys :)

[Realtalk]

I dunno, monkey see monkey do. People see someone doing really well under someone, start chatting to them, hear their bias review and want a piece of that. It's human nature I guess. All programs are pretty similar, they are all at the end of the day somewhat linear. They all build up and follow a linear progression eventually. I don't coach anyone so the whole topic doesn't really bother me. I have had 2 people ask me to coach them one wanted to see the program before he paid for it lol and the other I said you will lift 4 days some weeks and 5 days others. She wanted to train 7 days and would ask me if she can. Ok so if you want to train 7 days a week go do it that's fine but don't annoy me for help. I can't stand all the coaches. In some (actually a lot of) instances you have like 3 and 4 I don't even know what the f*ck to call it... But when you have a coach coaching client that client is coach to someone else then the little bottom feeder is starting a coaching service. It's a joke. In gpc Australia its rife and I really hope that doesn't trickle over here but I can see it's already started.

 

as some would know Jono does my programming he isn't a coach he just writes and sends me the program. He picks the weights too as he has gotten to know what I should be hitting. That keeps me accountable and makes me put that weight on the bar. He isn't there to motivate me, spot me or kiss my arse. He just sends the program weekly. I met Jono from the forum. we both lived in East Auckland at the time and decided to catch up one time this was many years ago. Jono was working running howick church and I was doing f*ck all lol. Fast forward a couple years and At the start of 2014 I was following the 5x5 program with some success but also blindly. I was pretty close minded as to what I thought getting stronger was about. I was asking Jono about Olympic lifting as I felt like a change of direction with my training and wanted to get back into a competitive environment. By mid 2014 I had decided to do a powerlifting comp and had heard about the gpc federation. I asked Jono if he would help me and he obliged. All the spreadsheets online just didn't make sense to me. I didn't know what % training was, or what the RPE scale was, I didn't know what a dynamic or speed day was useful for, I didn't know what a real deload was. I would only consider a change if I had learnt all I thought I could from him or if I felt it became stagnant (firstly which would just change the approach). You gotta look at yourself first, I'm going through a slump with my training this cycle and it's not going too well. I got a couple of physical issues holding me back which are sounding like a broken record. But that's me not the programme. Lot of people gonna chuck that in and look to pass the blame. I guess I'm also loyal as well I want to share any success I have on platform with Jono in some way, no one else really cares irl lol so it's nice to have someone personally rooting for you.

 

Heaps of scammers out there. It's like PT in the gym. Cause he has the most clients doesn't mean he is the best. It's exposure. When I worked in gym I had no clients to begin with then each one you pick up the more you get. People see you training many people they assume you are the man. Same powerlifting coaches.

 

 

[HarryB]

Great points, the recurring thing I think is that the coach client relationship relies in a certain amount of investment for the client in their own process. As Realtalk stated he looked into the protocols and self educated to make his decisions. When faced with an injury or some other issues the client often won't focus on what they're doing or not doing and realize that it's not a result of programming. Kind of like when I write a diet for a client and rather than admit to the 2 chocolate bars they're having a day they say my process doesn't work and look for someone who tells them chocolate is a great antioxidant and I was killing them cos the calories were too low :) 

 

Coaching people is hard work and I have to say as a coach you can never be more invested in the client than they are invested in themselves. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by HarryB
fat fingers can't type on little keys

[Skeletor]

Coaches get a lot of undeserved blame from what I've noticed. Guys go and add 100 sets to their program or chuck something out in favour of something they'd rather do because they're stronger at it. Then when they don't get any gains blame the coach. Or they go hit the piss on the weekend and then can't put in a good effort in their training. Id also point out that you can't necessarily expect to get gains off every block you do. There comes a time where progression will slow to very small increments. Sure for a beginner but a more advanced lifter isn't going to put 20 or so kg on their total every 12 weeks.   Having 50,000 followers on instagram doesn't make a good coach either. Remember they only post the success stories not the ones who aren't progressing . I ran an online program from a very well known strength coach which wasn't even designed around me and no surprise I pretty much lost strength . Yet I followed the program to a tee.  I then had the pleasure of working with Wookie who designed a 6 week program for me which I ran over 3 cycles and got gains in all lifts. I then started working under Thomas Lilley because Wookie was only working with 2 competing powerlifters at the time and didn't have the space so I looked around and through people I follow on instagram and looking at the results they were getting as opposed to other online coaches I asked Thomas.  I think it all depends what you're after from your coach. Each have expertise in different areas, no two are the same but ultimately the end goal should be.  

[Wookie]

If I can have a quick rant, I completely agree the lifter has to be most invested in themselves. It's why I stick it out with Realtalk even when injuries happen (and no, not every injury is preventable).

 

What constantly amazes me is how the higher the level lifter that I help with programming, the less pushback I get. I did the programming for a Commonwealth level athlete, and it was a pleasure. If he didn't like something I programmed, he had valid reasons why. It was an extremely successful partnership and at the end he'd understood enough that he was able to program for himself without needing me.

 

Most novice and intermediate powerlifters and strongmen? 10x more pushback.

[HarryB]

I get this same thing with prepping people for bodybuilding. It's kind of frustrating having to explain things multiple times because they "saw something on the internet" or "spoke to someone the know who did a show once" . I have a 2 explanation policy. 

[Wookie]

I wrote 3 programs this week - 1 for RT who is in the final stages of a comp prep that admittedly hasn't gone very well. 1 for the current NZSM (admittedly only a 6 week thing with the plan that he repeats the program about 3x in his offseason), and 1 for what was a planned replacement on Team Wookie as a competitive powerlifter. 

The guy sadly failed to complete week 1, not due to the weights being too heavy, but wanting to focus on bodybuilding not strength. I even included 2 exercises, 1 being technical to help overcome hitching on the deadlift.

Was a funny week of contrasts as the NZSM winner is absolutely stoked with the work he put in and getting some new ideas. Commitment to the process.

 

Going to leave that competitive PL spot open till I find someone who actually is serious about doing well.

[HarryB]

OK man... I'm ready for a change... oh wait... you said serious....

[Wookie]

15 minutes ago, HarryB said:

OK man... I'm ready for a change... oh wait... you said serious....

 

Everyone wants a 300kg squat, until they begin to realise it's a little harder to accomplish than your local fun run.

[HarryB]

Ha ha ha ha done it quite a few times actually ;) not bad for a lazy weak as bodybuilder. Our mutual mate Mr Waitoa can attest to the validity of that claim. 

[Wookie]

15 minutes ago, HarryB said:

Ha ha ha ha done it quite a few times actually ;) not bad for a lazy weak as bodybuilder. Our mutual mate Mr Waitoa can attest to the validity of that claim. 

 

It's only impressive if you do it without creatine.

 

:P

[HarryB]

Ha ha ha ha my brother does it without creatine. And you're right. That's why I never got onto PL. Too weak. 

[soundsgood]

3 hours ago, Wookie said:

 

It's only impressive if you do it without creatine.

 

:P

 

Whats impressive WITH Creatine? 

[HarryB]

2 hours ago, soundsgood said:

 

Whats impressive WITH Creatine? 

 

Apparently nothing lol 

[Wookie]

2 hours ago, soundsgood said:

 

Whats impressive WITH Creatine? 

 

356kg.

[HarryB]

To me it depends on bw lol and being an all rounder. Got to have a matching bench ha ha ha 

[Bigken1985]

Coach? What's a coach. I do this shit alone. Natty. Coachlees. Guess I'm doomed

[Pseudonym]

What goes into creating a programme, Wookie? What do you actually do, and how long does it take you to do it?

[PETN]

8 hours ago, Bigken1985 said:

Coach? What's a coach. I do this shit alone. Natty. Coachlees. Guess I'm doomed

Seriously?  You dont use a nutritionist and you dont have someone to write you out your programming or someone who you see for mental/spiritual coaching? Not sure if youre trolling or being serious. 

[HarryB]

21 minutes ago, PETN said:

Seriously?  You dont use a nutritionist and you dont have someone to write you out your programming or someone who you see for mental/spiritual coaching? Not sure if youre trolling or being serious. 

 

Probably doesn't have a stylist either....

[Wookie]

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

What goes into creating a programme, Wookie? What do you actually do, and how long does it take you to do it?

 

Well it comes down to where the person is in their training cycle. 

That dictates what we're doing, for example if they're not competing for 3-4months the training looks different to 6 weeks out from a contest.

I have basic principles and plan basic volume, frequency and intensity for the duration of the cycle. No one gets simple numbers into a spreadsheet.

Then on a week to week basis I'm getting feedback mostly around RPE values and that will let me know how they're handling the volume and intensity. For example if I'm expecting someone to squat 230x2 at a 9RPE during a heavy volume cycle, and they come back and say they could have done 4 reps (8RPE), I know they're handling the intensity and volume more easily than projected and so I can push a little harder.

 

The rest of the time it's being in touch, answering questions and whatever else. Probably averages out about an hour a week, sometimes more, sometimes less.