What's your regimen?

[delts]

Hey guys,

 

Long story short I had low T and in my early to mid 20s managed to get on TRT.

 

Doc sent me home with 10 1ml amps of test enanthate 250mg and told me to do one shot a week. This didn't sound right to me as I'd always done/heard of a minimum of twice a week.

 

After a few months I started to notice the benefits in the gym, aggression etc. but ran into an issue in the bedroom. I wanted to have sex but a lot of the time had trouble maintaining an erection despite what my partner did and how turned on I was. Note that I was still getting morning wood.

 

I started to stress out, did some research and found that my e2 was almost triple the recommended amount and I had almost all the symptoms of high E2. Meanwhile my testosterone was 28 on a 8-29 scale.

 

this freaked me out and with the help of my doctor I decided to try a restart with nolvadex. I took 40mg a day, felt like horse shit for the first two weeks after my last shot, then something crazy happened and for a week I felt the best ever had in my life, wanting and having sex 3-4 times a day, crazy gym pumps and drive, general well being was amazing. Another week passed and this stopped and now 4.5 weeks since my last shot I feel shit again although I still have the occasional morning wood.

 

question is, what is your guys TRT regimen? Thinking of getting back on but doing 75mg twice a week with arimidex 0.5mg on shot days. I just want to feel how I did in that sweet spot again. 

 

Sorry about the novel but it's a very stressful situation and I don't really have anyone to talk to about it all, doc is pretty cookie cutter with his advice.

 

also has anyone had any success with clomid only therapy? Been seeing crazy lab results online but only complaints seem to be it's a libido killer which would make it worthless

 

cheers

[manlet]

If you are on TRT, I would recommend being on low dose aromasin. While it is a lot weaker than Adex it is a lot healthier for your lipid profiles and less harsh in general which is important if your e2 can not be fixed in the short term.

 

Sounds like you get your blood work done so perhaps talk to your doc instead of me though.

[Shutupandsquat]

The only thing with aromasin is that it needs to be slowly increased over a period of time which will depend on you as an individual, so I won't throw out numbers.

 

also, the 500mg of week you've heard isn't for TRT, it's for first cycles. There's a big difference there.

 

Maybe talk to your doctor about getting cypianate instead of enanthate as it doesn't aromatise as much.

[PETN]

Why would cyp not aromatise as much? Seems a bit contrary to my understanding of how esterified steroid compounds work

[nate225]

HRT shouldn't require 2x shots per week. Long esters you're dealing with, standard practise 7-10 days with HRT or if using reandron every 3-4 weeks.

Definitely use an AI if E levels out of whack, whatever you can get that's easy on the body as HRT is long term vs a cycle. No doubt your doctor will want regular bloods done anyway to check impact.

[Daz69]

6 hours ago, PETN said:

Why would cyp not aromatise as much? Seems a bit contrary to my understanding of how esterified steroid compounds work

 

The half lives are similar, the ester weights are similar, I'm interested why he might think aromatisation would be significantly greater with cypionate..? 

The only difference is cyp' has a cyclopentyl ring and enanthate a long carbon chain which gives it 2mg more testosterone per 100mg of combined ester/hormone than cyp'....

Makes very little difference to aromatisation rates..!!

 

[nate225]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the aromatisation occur after the Ester is cleaved? In which case test is test is test when it comes to aromatising.

 

Possibly another myth to put next to deca heals joints...

[HarryB]

Doesn't it? Wtf

[Realtalk]

1 hour ago, nate225 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the aromatisation occur after the Ester is cleaved? In which case test is test is test when it comes to aromatising.

 

That's right.

 

which is why people say use prop pee comp cause it aromatises less. No it doesn't, you are just using less test when you are on prop than on enanthate because the half life clears much faster

[nate225]

Prop useful pre comp but not as most people think (the old I hold less water on prop myth) but so you can drop test out quicker (halflife as per RTs comments) if still holding water from test. 

[PETN]

How is it less test realtalk? Youre using exactly the same amount per week pinning 500mg of prop as 500mg enanthate.

 

Irrespective of ester/half life once stable levels are reached youre getting 500mg (less ester weight) cleaved off  from ester and available  to be used per week.

 

The extra test thats built up from longer ester is still bound to the ester so not like its actually doing anything (like aromatising or making test levels higher) sitting there.

 

With other drugs what youre saying about it building up is true. But in this case thats only true if youre looking at the esterified test present in your body as an 'active drug' and the cleaved test as'eliminated'. Obviously thats not how it works.

[Pseudonym]

21 minutes ago, PETN said:

youre getting 500mg (less ester weight)

I think that's the point Realtalk was making. Different esters have different weights - so therefore in 500mg of testosterone molecules with a heavy ester attached, a lot of that weight comes from the ester so you won't have as much test. Conversely, with a lighter ester, more of the 500mg will be actual testosterone molecules.

 

I'm not sure what the difference in weight is between proprionate vs enanthate though.

[PETN]

Just now, Pseudonym said:

I think that's the point Realtalk was making. Different esters have different weights - so therefore in 500mg of testosterone molecules with a heavy ester attached, a lot of that weight comes from the ester so you won't have as much test. Conversely, with a lighter ester, more of the 500mg will be actual testosterone molecules.

 

I'm not sure what the difference in weight is between proprionate vs enanthate though.

 

Nah bro thats not point hes making at all. Prop ester is lighter than enanthate so thats the opposite way around - you get more test per unit of weight of test prop than same weight of test e.

[Daz69]

12 hours ago, nate225 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the aromatisation occur after the Ester is cleaved? In which case test is test is test when it comes to aromatising.

 

Possibly another myth to put next to deca heals joints...

 

Yes.. The ester slows transport into the blood stream where the ester is cleaved at 17b-OH by enzymes esterase and hydrolase, only then is it exposed to the aromatase enzyme...

 

Oestrogen increases the viscosity of joint hyaluronic acid (the main compound in synovial fluid). So any aromatising AAS should be helpful.

 

Nandrolone has direct oestrogenic activity (it's classified as an oestrogen and an androgen) but also a pretty strong affinity to the progesterone receptor (unlike testosterone). Some of it's main metabolites (ethinylestradiol and 7-a-methyl-ethinylestradiol) are also very potent oestrogens.

So it could be simultaneous interactions between the AR, ERa/b and unusual affinity for the PR that moderate the anabolic effect on joint HA and chondrocyte activity and enzymes. This differential could account for much of the variation in effect between test (and metabolites) vs deca (and metabolites).

[Daz69]

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I think that's the point Realtalk was making. Different esters have different weights - so therefore in 500mg of testosterone molecules with a heavy ester attached, a lot of that weight comes from the ester so you won't have as much test. Conversely, with a lighter ester, more of the 500mg will be actual testosterone molecules.

 

I'm not sure what the difference in weight is between proprionate vs enanthate though.

 

Hey Pseudo.... Hormone % after ester weight removed:

 

Test Propionate 78.8%

Test Phenylpropionate 64.5%

Test Enanthate 67.8%

Test Cypionate 65.8%

Test Undecanoate 59.4%

 

Nandrolone phenylpropionate 63.3%

Nandrolone decanoate 60%

Trenbolone acetate 81.1%

Boldenone Undecylenate 59.5%

[Daz69]

10 hours ago, PETN said:

How is it less test realtalk? Youre using exactly the same amount per week pinning 500mg of prop as 500mg enanthate.

 

Irrespective of ester/half life once stable levels are reached youre getting 500mg (less ester weight) cleaved off  from ester and available  to be used per week.

 

The extra test thats built up from longer ester is still bound to the ester so not like its actually doing anything (like aromatising or making test levels higher) sitting there.

 

With other drugs what youre saying about it building up is true. But in this case thats only true if youre looking at the esterified test present in your body as an 'active drug' and the cleaved test as'eliminated'. Obviously thats not how it works.

 

I think what Tom is trying to say: 500mg of total compound (hormone + ester) = 394mg of Test from Propionate or 339mg of Test from Enanthate...

 

You are correct Test is test, but speed of release into the blood are different as are the size of bolus injected, plus frequency of injection, when comparing Prop' to Enanth'.. As prop' is usually pinned ED in a smaller bolus as opposed to Enanth' pined E3rd day with a much larger bolus.. This does seem to affect rates of metabolism in some people...

 

[PETN]

12 hours ago, Realtalk said:

 

 you are just using less test when you are on prop than on enanthate because the half life clears much faster

 

I dont think he was referring to the ester weight differences at all as hes saying youre using more test with enanthate than prop, which is the opposite way around.

[Realtalk]

Yeah sorry, you're right Hugh.