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NZIFBB Pro-Am Champs 2016


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I think Lee would definately been right up there - just suck a freakily muscled physique.

 

Head to Head vs Shawn (which only usually happened at the Olympia as Shawn focused on this show almost exclusively bar the odd Arnold Classic ) Shawn almost always placed higher though. Both world class but I thought Ray was just more complete, usually more detail, more torso thickness, more chest thickness,  more detailed back and hamstrings was the difference  and I thought the placings at the top show reflected this. Also his overall presentation and posing was immaculate. Also his Leg Development (quad/ham) was very thick and along with his Torso Thickness and Back Detail this made him very competitive against guys like Kevin despite a 40lb weight difference and Kevins Freaky Delts and Tris. 

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16 hours ago, Bigmikedifbbpro said:

for many yrs I was a contributed to these forums but got very tied of the tall poppy syndrome and the constant bashing of people actually out there doing it.

It's good to see you again, Mike. Don't let the opinions of a few put you off the site. (Rightly or wrongly, Realtalk's not afraid to share his opinion, and he doesn't pull punches - but equally if you do well, he'll be pretty quick to congratulate you too.)

 

I think the issue is maybe that people have a certain image in their minds of a "Pro Bodybuilder", and measure everything to that standard. And maybe that's not realistic. So to use a powerlifting analogy... I guess it's like you've qualified to lift at an Elite level, invite-only competition. Whether your lifts are enough for first place or not isn't the issue (though obviously that's always the goal). But it's your dream to be on that stage, rubbing shoulders with other Elite competitors. So if you have the opportunity... well, you'd be crazy not to.

 

You should stick around - as Nate says, there's plenty of people who'd welcome your advice. :-)

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39 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

It still surprises me, that in a "sport" that is 100% subjective, people get upset when others give their opinion. I guess sometimes the truth hurts.

 

And someone that was an amateur for 11 years, should at least be able to spell the word.

 

After talking to Peso we've decide that Michael Knight should be the head moderator of our new sister site Spellingnation.co.nz  ;)

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18 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

It still surprises me, that in a "sport" that is 100% subjective, people get upset when others give their opinion. I guess sometimes the truth hurts.

 

And someone that was an amateur for 11 years, should at least be able to spell the word.

I was going to let your first comment pass because I thought the topic had moved on, but since you bring it up...

 

Both your comments towards Mike have been unnecessarily personal. You haven't expressed your opinion on his physique, or his potential as a pro... You've just made personal digs at him.

 

You can't make comments like that, then hide behind the "bodybuilding is subjective" excuse when he quite rightly objects.

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11 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I was going to let your first comment pass because I thought the topic had moved on, but since you bring it up...

 

Both your comments towards Mike have been unnecessarily personal. You haven't expressed your opinion on his physique, or his potential as a pro... You've just made personal digs at him.

 

You can't make comments like that, then hide behind the "bodybuilding is subjective" excuse when he quite rightly objects.

 

When someone comes 3rd out of 4 people in a very weak pro lineup, then comes on here telling us how great they are, it's clear that they need a bit of a reality check. 

 

Bodybuilding related - the judges probably didn't like the blocky waist, with a few lagging body parts, that's why a more aesthetically pleasing physique was given 2nd place. 

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1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

 

When someone comes 3rd out of 4 people in a very weak pro lineup, then comes on here telling us how great they are, it's clear that they need a bit of a reality check. 

 

Bodybuilding related - the judges probably didn't like the blocky waist, with a few lagging body parts, that's why a more aesthetically pleasing physique was given 2nd place. 

You would have to be the biggest @#&€ wit  that's I have ever seen on here.  And obviously somone that hasn't bee around that long otherwise we would have crossed paths and you would know what sort of person I actually am. I havenet talked about how great I am, I did defend just with facts that I'm not the "chump" that a few of you suggested I might be. You remind me of some of the guys around 20-25 yrs ago talking about how they are Gona gona gona and never do. They were all full of shit too. I'm ment to be back for a few shows this year in NZ feel free to introduce yourself?

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Mike, what's you're opinion on the state of NZ bodybuilding? By that I mean the willy nilly handing out of pro cards to people that maybe don't deserve them. Or do you think everyone who has one deserves one?

 

I hope this doesn't offend you either, but all I see is a dilution of amateur competition. Especially the male bodybuilding class. People who have pro cards who don't or can't compete would be better off making the amateur competitions better at the same time making them a better bodybuilder. I don't know grant really at all but giving up his pro card looks to be the best thing he did for his bodybuilding. I just think some people, actually the majority of people are getting gifted them too soon.

 

what do you think?

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That's a pretty loaded question. Really a guy can only talk about his own situation. It'd be like me asking you if SG's squat depth and resulting records were ok when it's a moot point because he doesn't pass his own squat the judges do. Mike doesn't give out the pro cards and is he going to be an asshole about who else is on stage with him? No and he never has been even when he was kicking everyone in NZs ass multiple times over. 

 

Oh and just using the SG thing as an example of something people have asked me to which I reply ummm it's 350k, that's fucking impressive. 

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1 hour ago, HarryB said:

That's a pretty loaded question. Really a guy can only talk about his own situation. It'd be like me asking you if SG's squat depth and resulting records were ok when it's a moot point because he doesn't pass his own squat the judges do. Mike doesn't give out the pro cards and is he going to be an asshole about who else is on stage with him? No and he never has been even when he was kicking everyone in NZs ass multiple times over. 

 

Oh and just using the SG thing as an example of something people have asked me to which I reply ummm it's 350k, that's fucking impressive. 

 

i have never squatted to depth even once my whole life.  Training or competing 

 

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Lol you also didn't have to justify anything SG , you've got nothing to prove. That was my whole point. 

 

My answer is ... yeah there are a fair few people competing on the pro stage who aren't competitive. But I'd say they're not just from NZ. The issue as I see it is that there is a process to get a pro card, win an overall national title and wham you're there. Or that was the process in which a lot of our current pro's got theirs. Also it's something like win or place at an international and a bunch of other means. This of course is discounting politics. Now if you have done what you had to do at your national level then good luck to you. You didn't break rules to get there. It's up to the organising body to decide whether or not you're qualified, the athlete is just doing their best. 

 

Would you like my comments on specific athletes? Lol 

 

And yes it dilutes the amateur competition but all the gay classes is doing that anyway ;)

 

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6 hours ago, Realtalk said:

Mike, what's you're opinion on the state of NZ bodybuilding? By that I mean the willy nilly handing out of pro cards to people that maybe don't deserve them. Or do you think everyone who has one deserves one?

 

I hope this doesn't offend you either, but all I see is a dilution of amateur competition. Especially the male bodybuilding class. People who have pro cards who don't or can't compete would be better off making the amateur competitions better at the same time making them a better bodybuilder. I don't know grant really at all but giving up his pro card looks to be the best thing he did for his bodybuilding. I just think some people, actually the majority of people are getting gifted them too soon.

 

what do you think?

Good reasonable question. 

Firstly we don't actually have that many Bodybuilding Procards being given out. Does everyone that has one deserve one? I'm not In the position to answer that and I'm not one to publicly knock people that do have them. however if someone has ticked all the boxes to receive there proceed who is anyone to deny someone's dream of making the next step. To this point every procard in nz belongs to someone who has won the overall national title bar one. Grants resigning of his PC was more to do with conflict with the NZIFBB than a conscious decision to give it up. As for me personlly what was left? Keep chasing the same titles? Go to the world champs on an uneven playing field or take up the offer (yes it was offered) the PC. I believe that once you receive your PC there should be a time frame in which up must use it. For me I won my last nationals in 07 planned on the world champs for 08. (From 2005 would have meet all WADA requirements as the world champs is ment to be fully tested and that wasn't trying to fudge anything) as I got closer to the world champs l then got offered either the worlds or my Pro Card. I opted for the life time dream. 2009 I competed in Tampa and Dallas against over 25 athletes in each show, I didn't make to 16 but each time was in the call out in which 2 did and 2 didnt, 2014 I competed in FITX  place 10th equal but a court back put me in 11, a week later I dropped 5 kg to place 3rd in the nz 212 and then again 3rd this yr. which we all have seen the discussions about the placings of 2nd and 3rd  so I havenet exactly disgraced myself. Michael Knights comments on the placing considering the level of the comp is rediculas, we as athletes have no control over who turns up at a show and maybe with bigger fields and more time standing in front of the judges then the out  comes could be different. I have been on stage and at a world championship event and after the first round no question I was out of the top 6. 4 rounds later I had pulled myself to 5th who knows. 

However again as for the dilutution of NZ bodybuilding, again it's not the athletes faults that the fields are getting smaller and smaller and because of the is it fair to remove the carrot of taking your sport to the next level because no one shows up to stand on stage with you? I have been around competing since 1993. We use to get 100 athletes at a show. There was no figure bikini men's physique or fitness just bodybuilding Jnr masters novice and opens men's and women's. My first show 16 Jnr men unfortunatly those days are gone but those wanting the next step shouldn't be penalised. Maybe just stricter conditions on what u must do once uou have the card.

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I remember seeing you guest pose at the 2009 Auckland champs Mike.  

 

I think you were 4 weeks out from your pro show in the states.  

 

Was quite a good year by NZ bodybuilding standards - Darryn O and Nathan O were the top amateurs, Grant had just turned pro, Moe was in great shape in the middle of his Olympia run and gave us a sneak peak.  We saw some great physiques come on stage and show what they had. Then you came out and the crowds jaws dropped.  Big, hard and full.  Another level over the amateurs.

 

Not ass kissing here - Having seen pros in the flesh around the world, I can say with confidence Mike has a pro worthy physique

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3 hours ago, Bigmikedifbbpro said:

Good reasonable question. 

And an equally good answer, Mike!

 

3 hours ago, Bigmikedifbbpro said:

unfortunatly those days are gone but those wanting the next step shouldn't be penalised. Maybe just stricter conditions on what u must do once uou have the card.

So you don't think it needs to be made more difficult to get the card in the first place?

 

What are the "stricter conditions" you'd like to see for those who've gained the pro card? Are you talking about things like a "use it or lose it" policy?

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Nice Post Mike D and well said,

 

I suppose the only contensious aspect of how many Pro's their are in NZ is that (from what I have observed)not every pro has won their card by winning an overall National Title.

 

I think its only implied that you have to in NZIFBB but and from memory the charter says sometime wishy washly like "anyone with sound character deemed to be of Pro Level can apply and be granted Pro Status") .

 

From what I have seen plenty have gone out to others at the Chairpersons discretion. Mostly in non BBuilding classes and If we go back on these boards a few years their are plenty of topics on this.

 

 

Some have just won their class, but not the overall, some haven't even won their class but the controlling body must have deemed them fit or deserving to be a pro which does lend it self to people asking questions as most spectators probably believe you have to win an overall National Tile or Pro Qualifier to get one.

 

From memory (and no disprect to these people as I dont know them, it's just 3 names that come to mind), I dont think Salah won the overall Mr NZ and I am pretty sure Rachael Chase finished 2nd in her class and still got one. I am not sure Jake Campus won an overall Mr NZ Physique either? Its worth noting though that all these 3 competitors have gone on and used the card to compete multiple times.

 

I think the first year Bikini came out a first time competitor got one too?

 

I think Mike D summed it up well in that if you are winning the National Title and still want to compete and keep progressing then moving to the Pro's and getting a card is the next logical step. What makes the process look bad is when a first time novice who is no where near pro level turns up, wins a small show and gets one. In these instances the card should not be offered IMO as you really have no idea if a first time competitor will do the card any justice and compete again. They could hold off and issue it when the time comes to a more competitive/advanced competitor perhaps.

 

 

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as an outsider with no knowledge on the sport i think "use it or lose it" is smart and will weed out those that shouldn't have it (if there are any) without anyone having to finger point and say they don't deserve the card.

 

e.g. the timeframe where you must use it, like mike said. 

 

people aren't going to take a pro card they know they dont deserve, if it means embarassing themselves later on.

 

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1 hour ago, maccaz said:

as an outsider with no knowledge on the sport i think "use it or lose it" is smart and will weed out those that shouldn't have it (if there are any) without anyone having to finger point and say they don't deserve the card.

 

e.g. the timeframe where you must use it, like mike said. 

 

people aren't going to take a pro card they know they dont deserve, if it means embarassing themselves later on.

 

 

The fact that plenty of these people show up at pro shows and bomb means that yes... yes they will :)

 

Definitely should be a time frame. 

 

How do you get the standard up is a tough one. One of the ways is by getting kiwis onstage in pro shows and yeah maybe they get hammered but it gives a taste of what the standard is. Also by bringing pros and pro shows to nz. It's one thing to see pics and videos but another to see them in the flesh. I'm of course talking bodybuilding. In men's physique and women's bikini kiwis are very competitive (didn't a kiwi chick win a show in the US or come 2nd). And now with Myra in figure we have some real contenders coming through. 

 

None of that would have happened if the NZFBB hadn't made the changes it did. So you take the successes with the failures. 

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Now we are talking some sence. Yep I think a use it or loose it policy would be good 18-24 mths or earlier if a local opportunity arose.

tue thing to also take into consideration like any pro sport there are varying levels. Steve Orton for example is someone we can look at to go right to the highest ranks. Myself it was never about that, top 10 in the USA was a goal top 6 would be a dream. Compared to a top tennis or golfer where a top 100 ranking or breaking into a major  doesn't mean they are any slug.  Even if the are a long bet off winning the event

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Exactly,

 

I have drawn the same analogy about tennis in an older post,  just as not everyone can be a Djorkovic or Federer doesnt mean they shouldn't have the opportunity to compete as a Pro if they  have genuinely earn't it. This gives them the ability to make a living or subsidise their living from the exposure tournaments bring, coaching, sales after their playing career is over, working for the federation etc.

 

In BBuilding, a Pro card can be a big plus if you have a contest prep business or are looking to be a promoter or gym owner etc and as Mike said not everyones goal is  be the top guy as this is a sport where you shape and genes can dictate to a massive degree how you look at 220-270lbs and only 1 in several million can be this Genetic Elite.

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12 minutes ago, HarryB said:

This is usually where someone chimes in and says that the genetics thing is a lie and you just have to use enormous amounts of gear and have someone tell you whatever secret it is the elite guys know...... cracks me up every single time. 

 

It's actually all peptides nowadays, old timer.

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The problem you have with comparing tennis and golf is the top 100 or 200 world ranked players are super and ranked out of millions of players worldwide. How many people worldwide get on a bodybuilding stage per year? Be lucky if it's 50,000 at a guess. Actually that's probably super generous. Also in tennis and golf the pros are the best of the best. There are no amateurs that stay amateur for very long if they are good enough. Im sure you all know who John meadows is, so John has only recently received his pro card. That's a great example of doing your time. Mike is another good example of that too. But you see there is a real problem for me when people like John can't get into the elite group that is ifbb pro but someone else can from a country of lesser standard. That would never happen in golf or tennis, the best is the best. It's like there is this girl from my gym she is from Slovenia and she does judo in her weight class she is world ranked like medal contention ok, problem is the world number 1 in that same weight class is also from Slovenia and only one person per weight class per nation goes to the Olympics. So other people who aren't as good as her are going ahead of her because of their good fortune and not because they deserve to. See where I'm going with this...

 

so anyway I disagree somewhat I think I think for someone mid twenties the amateur level has so much to offer them and they have so much to offer it. I just don't see what the pro arena is offering someone like kenny or teina and I don't really see what they are offering it.

Look at Steve, he did the amateur thing and has a nabba world title. No one can ever take that away from him.

 

not really getting the mentality of some of the posts and some of the people. Again just my opinions.

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