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Cam0505

Trt advice

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It has been a long time since I lasted used this forum and have learnt a lot/grown as a person considerably since when I first became a member. However 1 thing that hasn't changed is my frustrating battle with the public endocrinologists over my blood tests for the past 4 years showing testosterone levels far below the minimum for any male (I can't remember the exact unit NZ specialists use anymore, however the scale goes from 9-22, while my blood levels sit around 3-5 depending on the exact time of the morning etc). 

 

So to provide some context my testosterone levels dropped naturally around 4.5years ago when I got convinced by the trend to drop body fat levels to or below 10%. I dropped my weight down far to quickly before becoming slightly obsessed with running,cycling, rowing etc. After months of pissing around with a GP, they finally tested T levels which were extremely low (I'll admit this was entirely my own fault), however they refused to refer me to an endocrinologist. I then returned home from University, saw the Christchurch endocrinology department (NZ has some strange regional system that limits DHB communication).

The endocrinologist ordered blood tests, noticed my blood levels, however was unable to do anything before I returned to University (so I had to reapply to the Massey system). The gp again refused to send me to an endocrinologist, so I sourced my own treatment which worked extremely well before the psychologist i was forced to see told my gp what I was doing. I was then referred to an endo, put on a prescribed TRT (This Endocrinologist was actually extremely understanding). For the remaining months of that academic year everything worked very well, I then returned to Christchurch, where a new endocrinologist took me off TRT (assuring me someone of my age, early 20's, couldn't possibly have a T level issue). I decided to take a gap year and work, mean while my T levels didn't improve from around 3-4 that entire time!

I then returned to University (Waikato) and continued on with the bureaucratic bullshit for the year (last year). My T levels have no improved and are still below the minimum average for all males, with my current endocrinologist stating he will put me on TRT if my blood levels are still low, however because the level went from 3.1 (8:30am ish) to 4.6 (7am ish) (estimates, can't remember exact numbers) he claims this is evidence I should wait for more blood tests in a few months, yet the different can be easily explained by the time of blood sampling and natural variation in blood results. 

 

So..... At this stage I am sick of this bullshit and would like to know what you all think I should do. As I am a student going private just isn't possible and given I have a decent understanding of endocrinology (from my time studying physiology) I am considering just self medicating, more for the libido, mental, and health benefits then any muscle benefit given I no longer focus on strength (mainly rowing, cycling, minimal strength work including pull ups/deadlifts/core work etc). 

 

I will also add that I am considering using nandrolone for a few weeks to drop my T levels simply to shut down my Endocrinologists argument, this is just an idea as I am yet to find or even think about finding nandrolone (As it is not legally available). I believe that Testosterone derived synthetic alternatives elevate T levels during a blood test, which I would assume is because these synthetics are similar enough to Testosterone, rather then any actually increase in HPTA produced testosterone. So Nandrolone is the best option, given the studies done on it and its clearly documented effect on T levels. So your opinions on this idea would be appreciated.

 

Lastly: It's rather amazing how gym go'ers talk openly about their use when they know that you have used previously used, currently use, or when they determine you are open to the use of any performance enhancing drugs. Don't really understand why these are illegal substances given the state of sport, the relatively minor downsides, the prevalence of far more dangerous substances, etc. I wish we lived in a free market society where my choices were my responsibility, therefore preventing anyone who chooses to use any substance from draining the public health system. Anyway, random tangent a side, thanks for your input. 

 

   

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Hey Cam, good to see you again!

 

Sorry if I missed something, but why are you unable to contact your old sympathetic endocrinologist? If you can't see him, I'd try to drop him at email, and explain that another endo has refused to continue the treatment he approved for you. You never know... he might try to help.

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18 hours ago, yeelang said:

make sure your GP doesn't write that you take gear on your medical records, as if you ever need to claim insurance, it can be used against you.

 This, and when you get private blood tests done use a different name,  birthdate so your result history not get linked to your NHI number.  Life insurance claims look at blood tests results history. 

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Well unfortunately I already told that very same "sympathetic endocrinologist" about using "illegal" testosterone. He was cool with it, however unfortunately the endocrinologists I have had since have been a lot less understanding (to say the least). Unfortunately, he already documented this usage in my notes.... Which has already resulted in me being labelled a "drug user" even though I only used because my GP was a moron. So thanks for the warning, but it is unlikely that I will be ever be able to claim hormonal treatment for the rest of my life (Just because I told the truth). 

 

In relation to why can't I just go see him again:

 

Because the DHB system used in New Zealand... I no longer live in Palmerston North so I can't be referred to that endocrinologist. I have asked my new endocrinologist to request the notes/blood tests etc from this endocrinologist, however he didn't deem it necessary.  

 

So even with blood tests proving my levels, pituitary scans proving it is not an abnormal growth/structural problem with the brain, and testicle examination results (no joke, was not very enjoyable to say the least) the endocrinologist is trying to justify rationing of treatment. 

 

Hench why I want to just use nandrolone (or Stanozolol, which has a similar effect on circulating testosterone levels) so my levels are so low that any argument against treatment is basically pointless (Which I can enforce through the healthcare complaints committee). Just wanted to know if there is another option as this is not what I wanted to have to do. 

 

Someone who at the University is happy to measure my bloods, I don't want to incriminate them so will just say they know what they are doing. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Cam0505 said:

but it is unlikely that I will be ever be able to claim hormonal treatment for the rest of my life (Just because I told the truth). 

 

 

 

The point of not telling them wasnt to get hrt later on, its so if you get cancer or similar in later life, life/health insurance can point to aas use in medical record and say they aren't paying.

happened to someone else on here with prostate cancer.

 

 

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Well, seems like my best option is what I thought. 

 

 

Would be nice if I could get it from a pharmacy like Thailand :D rather then an unverified source. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, HarryB said:

 

Not quite.... 

Well it's not quite pharma in the way we would consider it . Not like it's amcal or whatever like a legit pharmacy that only sells products that have been made with some kind of quality control 

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19 minutes ago, maccaz said:

Well it's not quite pharma in the way we would consider it . Not like it's amcal or whatever like a legit pharmacy that only sells products that have been made with some kind of quality control 

 

Well actually... You can buy the same steroids they dispense at hospitals and medical clinics and it's huge business in Thailand so it's not bad gear, the labs supply all over the world to legitimate and underground businesses so there has to be some quality control. Certainly a lot better than you're local cook is making over his bunsen burner in the garage :) 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, HarryB said:

 

Well actually... You can buy the same steroids they dispense at hospitals and medical clinics and it's huge business in Thailand so it's not bad gear, the labs supply all over the world to legitimate and underground businesses so there has to be some quality control. Certainly a lot better than you're local cook is making over his bunsen burner in the garage :) 

 

 

This, just walk into any pharmacy in Phuket/patong and ask for a price list. You will be given a book of what they have. All pharma gear 

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TRT is about getting a stable ongoing test level within the normal - high range. Most people I've spoken too about this suggest mimicking a typical 25 year olds level.

Obviously you'd want a stable long acting test, reandron useful as shots every 4-8 weeks but commonly cypionate or enanthate esters are used with shots every 7-10 days. I have heard of sustanon being used but the mixed blend of half life's seems more hassle in a TRT situation. 

Maybe ask a health professional "IF" they were to prescribe what they would recommend. 

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