First Post First Cycle. Man Up Time!

[Daz69]

43 minutes ago, HarryB said:

Ameliorate.... bloody show off :)

 

Hi Harry.... 

 

Retard + Google = Retard with Google..

[woody]

21 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

What can happen on cycle in some individuals prone to this complaint, is AAS elevate BP which in turn (as you say) negatively affects the pumping ability of the heart mainly the left ventricle is unable to keep up demand from the right ventricle which in turn feeds the pulmonary system (lungs). Fluid backs up on the lefts side causing blood to back up the pulmonary vein to the lungs, this causes alveoli to retain fluid, which reduces gas exchange, which makes it difficult to breath...

I've always thought something similar might be going on with trenbolone, where it can be difficult to breath at times..

 

If water retention is a health issue it might be best not to use compounds that ameliorate your complaint..

thts an even better explanation than the doc gave me,so will using an ai help,when this happened i was low on ai and had vertially halfed my usual,or maybe the inclusion of d/bol excaperated things(another good word despite possible spelling error}anyways i have decided to stick to com pounds with that aromatize less....thanks

[WheelerWannabe]

Long time no see,

 

Sorry for the gap.

 

No worries, all info shared here is helpfull.

 

So my cycle ended on the 8th about a pin early cause I goofed n let the rest run out of my vial when drawing haha

 

So my final weight as of now is 93.4kg, 96.8kg at the height  and I started at 90kg. So 3kg gained at what looks like a similar bf ration, im very happy for what I am told is a very low dose.

 

My diet was strong until about week 6-7, when I ran out a protein and was probably not eating enough. I dropped to about three big meals. At the end I started cleaning it up and switched to clean foods. So im sure I could have grown some more. And im sure some of the weight lost is body fat as ive added 30mins of cardio a day.

 

As far as being off. I havent had  adverse affects or feelings. Ive been training hard the whole time, so I think that helped with maintaining strength and size. 

 

I definitely believe diet is key however. Had it been on point the whole time im sure I could have been bigger.

 

Pics coming soon

[WheelerWannabe]

Before and after

 

[PETN]

Did your strength go up much? And how much of this have you kept?

 

If im correct 3 weeks ago you did your last pin...i wouldn't consider your cycle to be properly over yet as (assuming your gear is legit) your test levels are probably only just dropping off below natural levels now and you may be about to experience low test levels and loss of strength/size for the next 3-4 weeks. That was my experience anyway bro.

[WheelerWannabe]

Yes that would be correct about three weeks. I cant really say my strength has gone down, I didnt feel my strengtg went up crazy to befin with. I always train hard though regardless.

 

The only difference I can feel now vs when on is I basically felt bad if I took a rest day because I DID NOT NEED IT! Honestly doing the split with a muscle group a day was much to far apart for the next workout. I could probably hit the same 6x12, six exercise workout every other day and be fine.

 

 

Ive looked up my natural max genetic size and im only just getting around there so I think if I continue training ill be able to keep it. Im at 93.kgs now and have been steady here for about two weeks. So 3kgs held so far.

 

6kgs bigger was like wtf for me so im interested to see what a beginners dose of 500mg and maybe some dbol would actually do. But im sure I could grow more on another 200mg cycle. Its the diet and exercise.

 

Makes me wonder if someone like phil heath who is 45lbs20kgs(shreddedofcourse) heavier then me is actually on that much, or has be been building over time with average doses. Idk maybe wishful thinking. Id be interested to know what phil, kai, ramy, and cedric are on to compare.

[bang_bang]

Because you used so little you should recover quicker/lose less. It takes a long time for me to notice my strength and size to start dropping like 8 weeks. 

 

Got to remember your first cycle is your best. You need more each time to get the same or even less results basically. I used 450mgs and gained 19kg in 12 weeks on my first cycle. If I had continued at that rate I'd be mr Olympia last year lol. 

 

Your looking pretty solid anyways that's a good result off such a small dose. Nice work

[PETN]

32 minutes ago, bang_bang said:

Because you used so little you should recover quicker/lose less. It takes a long time for me to notice my strength and size to start dropping like 8 weeks. 

 

Really? Quite different from my experience.

 

I found mine dropped off a lot 3 or 4 weeks after last pin and came back mostly 7 weeks after last pin. So i had like 3 weeks where i was significantly weaker. Below are some numbers for bench from like 3 years ago:

 

On cycle:

140x4

 

Week 5 post last injection:

140x1 (grind)

 

Week 8 post last injection 

137.5x5

 

Cycle was tren e 350mg/wk + test e/iso 700mg/week for 7 weeks then half those doses for a further 7 weeks then ran test e alone for 3 weeks. Then 2 weeks of nothing but an AI, then PCT of clomid 50mg/day nolva 20mg/day for 4 weeks. Ran cabergoline and seligelline (however its spelt) alongside cycle and through pct too.

 

You must have used some fucking long esters  or some shit if it took 8 weeks to start losing strength.

[bang_bang]

That was using either eq or deca so yeah very long esters probably explains it. Around 8 weeks is when I've definitely noticed strength loss, may have started a week or 2 earlier. My strength never came back though unfortunately lol. 

[Bigken1985]

6 hours ago, WheelerWannabe said:

Before and after

 

So what made you go this route?  I'm not exactly wowed by your pics (sorry bro). It certainly does not seem like you've maxed out your natural potential. So my question is why. I just don't get this mentality. How long have you been lifting? What are your numbers?

[PETN]

Didnt say it before but I reckon you look good mate (no homo). Wouldnt say i was wowed by your gains but thats because you looked pretty solid and lean before and gained 3kg from your cycle which isnt a lot.

 

I highly doubt anyone on this forum maxed out their natural potential before starting gear. You'd have to be like late 30s or early 40s or something probably with half fucked joints lol. What a waste of time if youre just going to use gear anyway. 

 

Theres no reason to max out your natural potential before starting. More important to actually know how to make progress by training and eating right. If you can make solid progress naturally then on gear you should make even better progress. Generally people who can do this have lifted for a while naturally.

 

Only stupid to start if youre like some skinny/fat c*nt whos training and diet is shit who basically hasnt progressed through laziness or you watched a zyzz video on 4chan and decided to buy some gear and start lifting.

[Daz69]

2 hours ago, PETN said:

 

Cycle was tren e 350mg/wk + test e/iso 700mg/week for 7 weeks then half those doses for a further 7 weeks then ran test e alone for 3 weeks. Then 2 weeks of nothing but an AI, then PCT of clomid 50mg/day nolva 20mg/day for 4 weeks. Ran cabergoline and selegiline (however its spelt) alongside cycle and through pct too.

 

 

If you don't mind me asking why the selegiline..? (MAO-B inhibitor)..!!

[PETN]

57 minutes ago, Daz69 said:

 

If you don't mind me asking why the selegiline..? (MAO-B inhibitor)..!!

 

Well my reasoning at the time was that by taking it id keep my dopamine levels higher than with the caber alone as it reduces oxidation of dopamine.  High dopamine levels would inhibit prolactin. Plus feel better lol. Was this flawed logic?

[Daz69]

11 hours ago, PETN said:

 

Well my reasoning at the time was that by taking it id keep my dopamine levels higher than with the caber alone as it reduces oxidation of dopamine.  High dopamine levels would inhibit prolactin. Plus feel better lol. Was this flawed logic?

 

I would always be cautious using D2 agonists (cabergoline), as we don't know enough about metabolism of dopaminergic neurons over the longer term...

In stating this with regards selegiline, dopamine metabolism is what seems to be causing apparent age related decline in dopaminergic cells in all humans regardless of Parkinson's, and that MAO-B inhibition will be protective in this regard..

Interesting combination, was your plasma prolactin excessively high, was it causing issue..?

[WheelerWannabe]

@Bigken1985 it was more of a why not. Ive been lifting seriously for about 7yrs and following bb for about 5 of those years. I really had no intention of using starting out. I was making gains easily naturally but just eating more. But you soon find out most if not all the guys you look up to in sports are on some kind of performance enhancing drug. So really it was just curiosity and the fact that I know id have to eventually to compete at any high level. 

 

7yrs into lifting I know my body pretty well and really it would just be a continuation of the same thing gaining results. So why not gradute to the next level of supplements? 

 

I when I started lifting second yr of highschool I was probably about 145lb w/ 135lb bench max.  I ended highschool at 185lb bench max 280lb(wrestled mylast year n cutting weight to 165lb hurt my progress) I pushed 300lbs the year after in college.

 

My cycle started with me at 90kg198lb and ended with me at 93kg205lbs. I was 96kg211lb at the height.

 

So on a piss poor dose, training hard the whole time and eating fairly well I gained in muscle, what most people would gain in a good year... and that was under nine weeks.

 

This was more a trial to see if I want to proceed down this path, how my body would handle it. 

 

Im not impressive right now cause I hardly did anything lol I mean Damn Daniel the arms are measuring 18inch but whatever haha

 

Im more hyped that if I did everything right , diet, exercise, sleep, supplements and upped the gear a tad bit I could probably get here in 2 years or less... When in Rome

 

[WheelerWannabe]

@PETN thanks. yeah I cant really say I knew what to expect. But for my arms to be a half inch bigger and with 3kgs gain while slightly leaner im happy for now.

 

I dont think youd really need to start with much more, of course thats up to you but I learned my body over time and id like to learn this fairly well. Someone posted earlier about starting high then ending up on huge doses your third time around. Which I want to avoid. I want a classic physique. Frank Zane, Surge Nubret, Bertil Fox.

 

And did no one notice the ab gain haha

[maccaz]

@WheelerWannabe

good starting point and good result considering relatively low dose.

not sure what bigken is on about tbh, random. must be that ipf anti drugs mindset eh @Bigken1985 ;) 

 

 

[PETN]

1 hour ago, Daz69 said:

 

I would always be cautious using D2 agonists (cabergoline), as we don't know enough about metabolism of dopaminergic neurons over the longer term...

In stating this with regards selegiline, dopamine metabolism is what seems to be causing apparent age related decline in dopaminergic cells in all humans regardless of Parkinson's, and that MAO-B inhibition will be protective in this regard..

Interesting combination, was your plasma prolactin excessively high, was it causing issue..?

 

Didnt have it tested during cycle but post cycle got some bloods done and it was above the upper limit of the reference range but not heaps above. Was something like it supposed to be <300 (unsure of units) but mine was 350. Cant remember exactly as it was a long time ago.

 

Was just paranoid about getting gyno from the tren use and the stuff was relatively easy to get at the time. Plus could squeeze out a small drop of milky looking shit from one nipple. Glands weren't big or anything then though.

[Bigken1985]

5 hours ago, maccaz said:

@WheelerWannabe

good starting point and good result considering relatively low dose.

not sure what bigken is on about tbh, random. must be that ipf anti drugs mindset eh @Bigken1985 ;) 

 

 

I was just questioning the guy Maccaz , the response was quite good. but oh because im in the ipf im anti. maybe too many painkillers maccaz

[Realtalk]

I thought the results from what I saw in the pics at the glance I had looked pretty accurate in regard to what was done.  I'd be happy with that.

[PETN]

1 hour ago, Bigken1985 said:

I was just questioning the guy Maccaz , the response was quite good. but oh because im in the ipf im anti. maybe too many painkillers maccaz

 

His response was good sure, but so were his before pics. Was pretty obvious from them that he'd lifted a while i thought and he seemed more 'ready to take the next step' than the majority of people nowadays who start gear, better than plenty who supposedly use too.

 

Was good he followed up his cycle with pics too. Much better than the people who come here and ask about first cycle then f*ck off. Will you be wow'ing us with your pics?

[Realtalk]

To be fair and blunt, I could see how someone who hasn't used or doesn't know many or anyone who has used could see how that isn't what is expected 

[woody]

omo you seem on to it enough have experience and dedication,and obviously the genes to do well in bodybuilding,when and how often you want to cycle is entirely up to you,do you think your  nearing or reached your natural limits.the gains from steroids are only of real value to acheive over and above that,and depends on how badly you want it.on average cycling will only bring gains over an extended period of around 20 %.also keep in mind the pro's can spend in excess of $15,ooo dollars per cycle!!!