WheelerWannabe Posted February 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Thanks for the replies guys, I can breath a bit easier now with that said. Never had any depression symptoms so I think I should be fine in that regard. More wanting to make sure I'm not gonna be worse off and weaker then before and that my boner will be there when I need it lol (priority #1) I want to start bodybuilding and shoot for a pro card eventually, but don't want to subscribe to the trt channel just yet. Does anyone have any ideas about Kevin Levrone back in the day saying he would grow into a show, and reportedly getting much smaller during the off season. Is the truly coming off or just blast cruise at that level? Also to stir things up, is anyone hip to GH15 and his writings? Would you say its fairly accurate or hogwash? And who do you think it is? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 On 16/02/2016 at 10:48 AM, WheelerWannabe said: Ok Folks, So at this point I have a moderate idea of pinning and what testosterone does in and to my body. The next thing I want to look at/learn about now is coming off and having the natural test production start again. Ive heard this sucks :/ Basically the opposite of what im feeling now will come into affect after my last pin. Not only will I dip down but lower then I was before. Depression, Low libido, Lack of energy, loss of strength. Basically whats the best way to combat this? What can/ should I expect? Will running Test E and its nature basically self taper? or make a difference? When should I start feeling this way? Would running a test booster help or be harmful after I get off/ just to boost libido(horny goat weed) and mood? How long will this last before I feel back to normal? I go back home for the month of may, have I just screwed my vacation? My plan as of now is touch down and find a multvitamin, Taurine, and fish oil(testbooster?). I am working on getting some clomid possibly, then signing onto a gym to keep my strength and size up for the month that I am away. My idea would be to go back to 5x5 to try and keep strength the same. What are your experiences coming off, story time!!! Ask a 100 people how best to PCT and it's likely you'll get 100 different answers.. You are on 200mg test-e/week.. That is a very conservative dose.. Personally I'd consider tapering off, ie: 2 weeks at 100mg, (or 100mg - 50mg) OFF..!! No nolva, No clomid.... Taurine 1.5g X2/day.. To address the likelihood of an increased estrogen: androgen ratio I might suggest an AI low dose 0.5mg E3rd day or even 0.25mg E3rd day, in the last week or so of the test taper... Keep training and eating well, expect strength and stamina to reduce slightly.. Buy your next cycle, put it in your top drawer, look at it when you feel depressed, if it keeps calling your name ignore it for at least the next 3 months... HarryB and Pseudonym 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelerWannabe Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Thanks for that Daz i dont exactly feel super human so im hoping the come off wont be bad. Its just funny because everyone notices im bigger haha so hopefully I can keep the majority of the size. Ill keep an eye on high estrogen related problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 theres 2 ways of aproaching a first cycle,cautious,as in 200mg test a week,which is fine but dont expect to much from it(200mg being slightly more than trt )but treating your first cycle as a learning experience has its merits.the other aproach is to take advantage of the first cycle a time when you can make some huge gains.the choice is entirely yours.imo always use an ai and dont skimp on pct,pct is not essential,in time you will recover,you may lose all your gains doing sothough.the quicker you can "re balance 'the better.id suggest for the more game first timer up to 500mg test e,still beleive test only is best as a first but you could add a low dose d/bol say 20mg.once again entirely up to you,just do your home work and be informed and stay vigilant. PETN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingersman Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Why always use an AI? Shouldnt an AI be only used when needed as they can be more harmful than the steroid use? bang_bang and HarryB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 2 hours ago, kingersman said: Why always use an AI? Shouldnt an AI be only used when needed as they can be more harmful than the steroid use? You are correct, why introduce drugs you don't need... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Daz69 said: You are correct, why introduce drugs you don't need... guess its a personal thing,but i always run an ai with test ,starting at a low dose and increased when needed.maybe if your dosing under 200mg you will get away with out one,personally ive found not taking it more risky ,some water retention can be helpfull and allow you to lift more,but thers a limit where it becomes a hinderence,especially if it goes beyond perivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang_bang Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Ive run over a gram of test/deca/dbol without an a.i kingersman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundsgood Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 It's my understanding an AI will inhibit the bodies uptake of gear so you are actually shooting yourself in the foot if you are using them unecessarily. Not to mention they are powerful breast cancer medication. No need to introduce them unless u need to imo kingersman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 are you talking a combined total at agram or a gram of test,plus deca/d/bol,either way if you dont blow up like a ballloon at those doses without an ai,then all the better for you,you must stick to an incredibly strict diet,unfortunately i even with a super clean diet would put on huge a mount of water weight.back in the day i do never ran ai,s or pct,to be honest i didnt even know they were available or even existed.what im saying ive done both,with and without,nowadays if im running high doses i always run an ai.but thats only my opinion,nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang_bang Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 That was combined. All good you should have them on hand in case you start showing high estro symptoms but avoid using them unless you need to imo. If you read over seas forums they generally say you'd be crazy contemplating any cycle without using one.. Same with hcg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtalk Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I never use an AI waste of money and bad for your body. Raised estrogen isn't always bad. If test levels are raised then you want raised estrogen levels. It's a ratio. You gonna break and feel like shit if you eliminate too much estrogen. It's not the enemy people make it out to be. HarryB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundsgood Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, woody said: are you talking a combined total at agram or a gram of test,plus deca/d/bol,either way if you dont blow up like a ballloon at those doses without an ai,then all the better for you,you must stick to an incredibly strict diet,unfortunately i even with a super clean diet would put on huge a mount of water weight.back in the day i do never ran ai,s or pct,to be honest i didnt even know they were available or even existed.what im saying ive done both,with and without,nowadays if im running high doses i always run an ai.but thats only my opinion,nothing more. Fair call, you do what works for you What's a high dose for you? Bearing in mind we will double whatever you claim lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaz Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 2 hours ago, bang_bang said: Ive run over a gram of test/deca/dbol without an a.i 750 test here and never used an ai. never had high estro symptoms or anything and bodyfat is not low. everyones different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 10 hours ago, soundsgood said: Fair call, you do what works for you What's a high dose for you? Bearing in mind we will double whatever you claim lol initially done alot of reading on an ai effecting gains,the conclusion i came to was that it can ,but very minimil,a high dose for me is a gram test,depending on the quality ive got at the time dont double that as thats my max,usually only stack 2 compounds at a time.dont know how folks get away with running d/bol without an ai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 11 hours ago, Realtalk said: I never use an AI waste of money and bad for your body. Raised estrogen isn't always bad. If test levels are raised then you want raised estrogen levels. It's a ratio. You gonna break and feel like shit if you eliminate too much estrogen. It's not the enemy people make it out to be. value all opinions but what you say is precisely the reason i use one,thinking being high test has its benifits,if your taking 5 times your natural test levels your estogen will also be 5 times.the downsides would far outweigh any benifits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtalk Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, woody said: If your taking 5 times your natural test levels your estogen will also be 5 times. It doesn't work like that mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Realtalk said: It doesn't work like that mate. ok ..ill try and get a better understanding,i too dont wanna take something thats not necarsary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 17 hours ago, woody said: if your taking 5 times your natural test levels your estrogen will also be 5 times.the downsides would far outweigh any benefits... If levels of exogenous testosterone are 5X that of normal its likely there will be some increase in aromatisation leading to elevated estrogen this is expected, but remember testosterone is elevated too... What is important is keeping the androgen:estrogen ratio within correct proportions.. Rather than using breast cancer meds to knock out estrogen (which is essential for growth and healthy living), adding masteron (an androgen that doesn't aromatise) can alter the ratio in favour of androgens, and thus balance things out... Remember most of the testosterone and estrogen is bound to a transport protein, therefore inactive, unable to bind receptor and trigger a response... (or initiate side effects)..!! If estrogen proves to be a problem, you can help yourself: by reducing body fat you will reduce aromatisation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 ok,thanks heaps,my thinking was the body is always trying to keep a certain balance or ratio of hormones,beleiving when you took extra test your bodys response would be to immediately increase aromatise to increase estrogen to keep that same test/estrogen per centage,but obviously theres a little more to it.this cycle im running eq/test and so far no problems.but a few cycles back test/deca d/boli ended up in hospital with a suspected enlarged heart,which turned out to be water collecting around the heart wall which in turn was causing some pulmory adema.that particular cycle i was taking a very low ai dose,directics quickley rectified the problem but was a little scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bang_bang Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Eq is good it doesn't aromatise easily. Damn that's scary, what symptoms did you get when you ended up in hospital? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 24 minutes ago, bang_bang said: Eq is good it doesn't aromatise easily. Damn that's scary, what symptoms did you get when you ended up in hospital? developed a pain in my left mid section,which i put down to a deadlift strain,however overnight i experienced difficulty breathing,a frightening shortness of breath which worsened when i lay down,i often hear of others cycling steroids complaining of shortness of breath after putting on weight,makes me wonder if its more common .apparently the excess water retention strangles the cardio vascular system,increasing blood pressure which in turn enables small veins to remove water from lungs,resulting in pulmory adema.so now any wheezing sounds or any chest pain im a little paranoid.was the fact the pain was so far left of the heart i wasnt to concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 wheeler wannabee,,,,sorry if it appears ive hi jacked your post,as far as your anxiety reguarding post cycle ,i wouldnt worry,true you might feel a little fatiqued anitially but its short lived,sometimes on cycle its not really so apparent just how good we feel,and only becomes so post cycle,during cycle i stop using pre workouts and only use them post,which helps a little,thing is during this hard period post cycle its important to try and keep up the same intensity in your workouts as on cycle,hard as it may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz69 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 1 hour ago, woody said: developed a pain in my left mid section,which i put down to a deadlift strain,however overnight i experienced difficulty breathing,a frightening shortness of breath which worsened when i lay down,i often hear of others cycling steroids complaining of shortness of breath after putting on weight,makes me wonder if its more common .apparently the excess water retention strangles the cardio vascular system,increasing blood pressure which in turn enables small veins to remove water from lungs,resulting in pulmory adema.so now any wheezing sounds or any chest pain im a little paranoid.was the fact the pain was so far left of the heart i wasnt to concerned. What can happen on cycle in some individuals prone to this complaint, is AAS elevate BP which in turn (as you say) negatively affects the pumping ability of the heart mainly the left ventricle is unable to keep up demand from the right ventricle which in turn feeds the pulmonary system (lungs). Fluid backs up on the lefts side causing blood to back up the pulmonary vein to the lungs, this causes alveoli to retain fluid, which reduces gas exchange, which makes it difficult to breath... I've always thought something similar might be going on with trenbolone, where it can be difficult to breath at times.. If water retention is a health issue it might be best not to use compounds that ameliorate your complaint.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Ameliorate.... bloody show off :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.