Meet Lifts vs Training Lifts

[Skeletor]

What should somebody expect to lift in a meet as opposed to their training lifts? I always here the saying "it doesn't matter what you can do in the gym its what you do on the platform that counts" being said . Now I know the weight isnt suddenly heavier so in theory shouldnt somebody be able to match or get close to training lifts in a comp? Say as long as they have had practice with all 3 lifts in a single day? Or is it the complete opposite and being in a different environment makes you not perform as well? For all you who have competed how do you go in training vs a meet? Does adrenaline kick in and you smoke it or do you not perform as well as you think you would?

[Leeroid]

I usually perform better at comp. Due to two things I believe. The first is that in the gym you train in a fatigued state but before a comp I'll take a week off lifting completely to let my body and CNS recharge fully.

The second is the adrenaline rush and the atmosphere of the comp, I think.

Best gym lifts I've done are 280/155/250. Best comp lifts are 290/155/260

[M.T]

I usually perform better at comp. Due to two things I believe. The first is that in the gym you train in a fatigued state but before a comp I'll take a week off lifting completely to let my body and CNS recharge fully.

The second is the adrenaline rush and the atmosphere of the comp, I think.

Best gym lifts I've done are 280/155/250. Best comp lifts are 290/155/260

 

Pretty much this. OB always said PBs are for the platform, not the gym.

[ZADIE]

Mine are 225/190/320 in comps. 200(3 reps)/200/300 (3 reps) so i guess pretty similar.

I think what people are meaning is that you cant bounce your bench or have some c*nt touching the bar taking 10kg off saying "its all you" and you actually have to squat to depth (or are supposed to have to anyway). Plus if its a 3 lift then some ppl dont max out say their squat if they think it might f*ck up their bench or dead or they may be fagigued/sore on bench or deads from prev lifts.

I know in the last 3 lift i did my elbows were fucked from my squat and this affected my bench. If id just done bench in the gym i would definately have gotten more.

[donz]

I agree with Lee as usual specially with the adrenaline even tho i know everyone in my fed now dead lifting in front of them was awesome like performing better for a crowd back since early sports days. I also find comp gear for most lifts will be better - ie Les Mills has stupid thick, cheap bars which make griping them harder and give you carry over going into a comp where you'll have a 27/28mm bar with comp plates vs big clunky plates that have a smaller diameter etc. I really don't see how some people choke at comps and fail to get their gym lifts. I've only done 2 comps but every lift was a PB by 10-35kg. Comps = win + fun 

[Realtalk]

A proper well thought out Deload in volume of a few weeks tapering off into the comp should be really beneficial on comp day.

Atmosphere

Having help at the comp. getting all the shit done for you, warm up bar loaded, knees wraps, everything. All you need to think about is 9 lifts. 1 lift at a time on comp day. In the gym you thinking about lots of things.

Things that might go against you - travel, lack of warm up gear, unorganisation of the comp, too many experts in your ear and you deviate from your plan you made pre comp when you were relaxed.

Strategy, if you want to win or podium at big comps... Sometimes just going out for a big wreckless PB total will work against you. Attempting a big pr squat for your 3rd when you might fail it might not be a good move strategically just to satisfy your ego and smash some gym lift.

Every comp is different. I think when your total is low it's obviously easy to break it every comp. as it gets higher it will be more difficult.

[Bigken1985]

I'm pretty even between the two. I've done ever so slightly more in the gym. Maybe 2.5kg difference. I also handle myself, run my own numbers, cards etc

[BeastBuilder]

I definitely lift more in comps than in the gym.

The proper deload plus mental preparation helps a metric fucktonne. Plus the atmosphere is sickening, some people hate it and get nervous, I thrive off it.

RT nailed it with things that can work against you too. Not every comp is going to go your way.

Depends on your personality and how you've trained tbh. But I think most people would lift more on the platform than in the gym (excluding BroSpot Benches, Half Squats etc etc)

[maccaz]

I definitely lift more in comps than in the gym.

The proper deload plus mental preparation helps a metric fucktonne. Plus the atmosphere is sickening, some people hate it and get nervous, I thrive off it.

RT nailed it with things that can work against you too. Not every comp is going to go your way.

Depends on your personality and how you've trained tbh. But I think most people would lift more on the platform than in the gym (excluding BroSpot Benches, Half Squats etc etc)

 

yeah i agree, i think even if comp environment isn't perfect im still gonna do far better than in gym. adrenaline + excitement + nice bar/bench + deload all will be good

[Wookie]

Given time, I'll put a few posts in here rather than try and write a book.

There are a number of factors:

 

The big one based off the original question, is training methodology. This has a huge bearing.

 

Obviously, not everyone trains in the same fashion. Programming varies wildly even at the top levels.

 

As an example, New Zealand has produced Commonwealth Gold medalists in Olympic Weightlifting using very different training methodologies. To massively oversimplify, we'll call them German and Bulgarian methods.

 

The German method begins with a number of mesocycles of multiple different exercises, higher repetitions; in short, the bulk of the training volume does not include the competition lifts - the snatch and clean and jerk. It then progresses towards using more of the classical movements, but makes use of alot of the power versions, as well as light and heavy pulls. Nearer to the competition mesocycle there would be the most use of the classical lifts, though rarely to to a maximal intensity (intensity being a percentage of your 1RM). Near to the competition total volume would decrease (which is an almost universal training principle) and the focus would shift to producing maximum force. Rarely in this type of programming does one lift to a maximum single near to the competition, the best performance is saved for comp day. One may get close to an opening attempt. I know of Olympic lifters who would lift as much as 20kg less in training than they anticipated in competition.

 

In contrast the Bulgarian method centered around a small number of exercises (the classicals, front and back squats, and pulls), with the majority of mesocycles containing only the classical lifts and the front squat. 1 Rep maxes are attempted as often as daily, but at least weekly. Deloading then comes by lowering the total volume of training done, but less so the intensity. As such, top lifters would be hitting or attempting their personal bests multiple times in the training cycle.

 

Why do I mention this? Because while the differences are extreme here, they can both produce top results. In the examples above, the 'German method' if applied to powerlifting assuming a competition best squat of 300, the lifter might only hit up to an easy 260 for a single, double or triple in training. Meanwhile the Bulgarian style trainer might be hitting 300 and attempting 305 multiple times.

 

The big question to ask, is do you know why you do what you do in training?

 

My competition programming for powerlifting tends to combine elements of both the above approaches.

If I'm writing someones competition programming 12-14 weeks out, I tend to use two mesocycles, volume and competition. The volume (see Maccaz log) cycle uses a few more exercises, with higher repetitions and lower average intensity. Then for the competition mesocyle the total number of exercises gradually decreases until we are basically just using the 3 powerlifts, relative intensity increases while total volume decreases, This becomes most apparent around 3 weeks out, which is when I say the deload actually begins. Taking a week off before the comp may not be an ideal way to deload, in the case of a Bulgarian style training program it would impair performance as the CNS shuts down.

I then program in maxes in the squat (14 days out), deadlift (10 days) and bench press (7 days). In the case of most lifters, those maxes tend to be around 2nd attempt level, and sometimes close to 3rd. I believe this to be most helpful due to having a very good idea of what one was capable of on the day. There is something very handy about having a 3rd attempt squat at 310kg and you know two weeks prior you hit 305 or 310 in the gym.

 

I've seen programs run where guys only work up to say a triple at 5kg below their planned openers. I know they arrive at the competition in a fresh state, but I think it is a style of training which takes a long time to truly gauge what you are capable of on the day. It is no accident that Tom/Realtalk has basically gone 9/9 in pretty much every comp he's done on my programming, as we have a very accurate understanding of what he's capable of hitting.

 

So that's a long answer on one aspect of the question. Do you lift more in a meet or the gym?

It depends how you train. In some cases, alot more. The way I program, you are unlikely to lift much more in the competition.

 

[ZADIE]

Surely going 9/9 could mean you're underestimating.

[Wookie]

Still wrote a book.

[Wookie]

Surely going 9/9 could mean you're underestimating.

Yes...but if each lift is maximal, then no.

You simply rarely win by going 6/9.

[bang_bang]

I can do more in the gym. I'm quite gym dumb and will sometimes attempt pbs if I'm feeling particularly good that day etc.

Also I seem to get fatigued at meets. My deadlift definitely suffers after 3 max squats/bench and 2 heavy deadlifts as opposed to hitting a max deadlift fresh

[ZADIE]

Yes...but if each lift is maximal, then no.

You simply rarely win by going 6/9.

How do you know each 3rd attempt is maximal though? Like what is the estimate based on?

[Wookie]

You know the 3rd is maximal in that if you put 2.5-5kg more on you would probably fail.

[ZADIE]

That didn't answer the question i was trying to ask. You obviously choose your 3rd attempt before you actually do it so how would you know in advance what's going to be 2.5-5kg from failure?

Im guessing its from the test rep 10 days out? But if the person does that programmed rep no worries with more in the tank then what?

[teamfatboy]

It's seldom clear cut, and for me it's all about experience.

Short answer: you don't know, the third lift is about going somewhere you've never been before, and backing yourself.

There are many variables: in the gym, what actual weights are the plates (hint: they're not all the same); how long a rest between attempts; atmosphere; comp standard or not, etc.

On the day, how many lifters in the flight (how long between lifts), plates you know will be accurate; different venue; comp day nutrition and hydration; time of day (in Auckland at Commonwealths two years ago, lifters were competing well into the night); are you going for PB or a win, or a record? Do you want a gold medal squat at the expense of the overall win? Plus there are three judges to convince, not your mate saying yeah, that was deep enough.

You do get a psychological boost from knowing what that potential PB weight feels like in the gym, before you try it in a comp, but that cuts two ways: if it felt light in the gym, that's good, but what if it "felt heavy"...would you play it safe, or go for broke on comp day?

Each lifter has to learn from their own record how big a jump to make from opener to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd. I saw young fellas at Nationals this year open too heavy, blow their squats trying to live up to unrealistic expectations set in the gym. But if you open too far below your goals, then the jumps are massive and that last 10kg increment feels like 50.

When talking about test days, sometimes it's not about the programmed target. It is about going up to 95%, then singles in increments up to 100% and beyond, but based on feel.. Oh, and damn good spotters!

[Realtalk]

Surely going 9/9 could mean you're underestimating.

It's plain retarded to imply that if you don't miss your 3rd then you weren't going heavy enough.

[Bruce Al]

Is it common for power lifters to cut weight for competition? 

[ZADIE]

It's plain retarded to imply that if you don't miss your 3rd then you weren't going heavy enough.

Im not saying it means this every time, im saying its a possibility. For me it has been the case with squats in the 2 three lift comps ive done.

Im interested in knowing how ppl accurately gauge what they are capable of lifting without underestimating on all 3 attempts. For me personally id rather fail my last attempt coz then i know i actually did lift at full or close to full potential on the previous lift as long as they aren't hugely different weights.

[donz]

In the 2 comps I've done I've picked an opener before the comp with help from friends I train with. Opener is easy to pick - my 2nd lift in each comp has been close to a gym PB and then 3rd lifts basically set it purely on how I feel which on comp day is always awesome so every 3rd lift has been a PB to date. No idea how you'd gauge it before but some do - I spoke with Brett a day before his Perth comp and he had all 3 attempts for all 3 lifts planned out and only last minute changed his 3rd on dead to less to get the 800 total. Noooo idea how you pick all 3 lifts, way to rookie to help/know haha

[teamfatboy]

In the 2 comps I've done I've picked an opener before the comp with help from friends I train with. Opener is easy to pick - my 2nd lift in each comp has been close to a gym PB and then 3rd lifts basically set it purely on how I feel which on comp day is always awesome so every 3rd lift has been a PB to date. No idea how you'd gauge it before but some do - I spoke with Brett a day before his Perth comp and he had all 3 attempts for all 3 lifts planned out and only last minute changed his 3rd on dead to less to get the 800 total. Noooo idea how you pick all 3 lifts, way to rookie to help/know haha

First lift, you should be able to double comfortably (prevents a 'bomb' by ensuring at least one good attempt per lift; second should be at or about PB, and third is new-PB country. 

 

But - be prepared to adapt on the day. I know the guys who went to equipped worlds in Eastern Europe found it very hot, got dehydrated, lost size and their squat suits/ bench shirts got too loose, so didn't work as well.  

 

Oh, and be tactical. If you're in a competitive class, and the race gets tight, esp in deadlifts, be prepared to be either conservative or daring  to nail the win, if that matters more than missing a PB attempt.