Pseudonym Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 So farmers are being paid just $3.85/kilo of milk solids - the lowest price since 2002.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11493795 But what does this mean for gym junkies? How will this affect the price of whey? Economists - ready, aaaand go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastBuilder Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 I doubt they'll drop the price of whey protein supps.They'll just make more money off our sorry asses lol.Isn't Whey just a waste product from when they make cheese etc anyway ?So the money they make from protein is just extra anyway.Be able to add more Dairy products into dem iifym diets though lol.They'll see cheaper prices overseas before we do probably anyway, always seems to be the way ! pyro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybro1 Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 I doubt they'll drop the price of whey protein supps.They'll just make more money off our sorry asses lol.Isn't Whey just a waste product from when they make cheese etc anyway ?So the money they make from protein is just extra anyway.Be able to add more Dairy products into dem iifym diets though lol.They'll see cheaper prices overseas before we do probably anyway, always seems to be the way !Yup Whey is the by product of cheese. The casein in milk biochemically reacts with renet, and a bacterial culture the remainder is whey.The Whey then goes though a UF plant and eventually dried in a spray dryer. As whey is a different market milk solid prices are affecting skim and whole milk. This is largely due to the Russian trade agreement being trashed due to the shooting of the Malaysia airliner. They were a big player with importing dairy. No demand with large supply causes issues with the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundsgood Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Can someone please explain this to meThe dairy industry is the backbone of the NZ economy. That's a well documented fact. Fonterra buys the majority of our farmers milk products for export. They set the price they are going to pay and then the farmers have to live with it.A Google search shows their net profit for the 14/15 year was $183 million after tax.Famers require on average $5.40 per kg of solids to just pay their bills. They got paid under $5 this year so there were a lot of farms that had to borrow heavily just to stay afloat. Now they have offered the farmers another $1 less than this year. Why should they bear the brunt of the falling prices so hard and be forced to take on even more debt or go bankrupt.I bet Fonterra won't be running at a loss which is fair enough but surely they should be taking on some of the losses? Obviously out farmers have been great to them in the past when prices were high. The farmers stayed loyal to Fonterra when other collectives came knocking and there's other things farmers can do with their land like Beefys, lamb etc. Where's the respect back to them?Offering interest free loans to help them thru? That just seems like PR to me. India has around 15000 farmer suicides per year by guys who can't afford to pay back the farm suppliers who 'help them out'. I would be assessing a lot of our local farmers who have done nothing wrong and put in a horrible situation.The flow on effect to our entire economy will be noticeable. The article states $2.5 billion dollar loss. Never mind worrying about the flag change, this is a much bigger issue IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted August 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 A Google search shows their net profit for the 14/15 year was $183 million after tax.What happens to Fonterra's profits? They're a collective, so does that mean the profits get returned to the farmers? If that's the case, even if the farmers are being underpaid while Fonterra is "creaming it" (no apologies - I'm quite proud of that one!) surely it all evens out at the end of the year? Although I accept it can't make cashflow easy in the interim. Offering interest free loans to help them thru? That just seems like PR to me.Again, as a collective, is there much difference between farmers getting interest free loans (which presumably Fonterra has to borrow for, and pay interest on, in order to faciliate them), and the alternative - which is Fonterra takes the loan itself in order to continue paying a higher milk price to farmers (but then has to pay off the loan before it can pay dividends to farmers later on)? Either way effectively involves farmers borrowing against their own future profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundsgood Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Okay I didn't understand how it worked, thanks for clearing it up Pseudo, so Fonterra being a collective is essentially owned by all the farmers and there is a divedend payout to the farmers each season dependant on their production or percentage of ownership?I understand the farmers are able to purchase additional shares during higher pay out periods at the expense of a cash payout, perhaps at a ratio of $1.20 of shares vs $1.00 of cash payout. So they are able to almost bank some of the good times in case of a rainy day like it is now. You're right in terms of the loan either way costing Fonterra. It's such a murky situation I hope that milk solids prices can recover or it's going to affect everyone here in the trickle downTo answer your original question I think the decrease in cost of milk solids is hardly going to have an effect on the price of protein powders for us. The margins are already so tight on the protein powders, but perhaps quality may go up, less fillers? Fingers crossed anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Well, that's my understanding, SG - but I could be totally wrong. Yeah, I figured a drop in protein powders is fairly unlikely, but we can hope! And it's just a good excuse to talk about an issue that will affect us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybro1 Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yup fonterra is a collective. Be a good time to buy shares if you were keen on decent return on investment. Pending on milk solid prices recovering, which they are bound too or thing are looking grim. Farmers are selling shares as fast as they can just to try stay a float. I couldn't see quality going up, companies aren't going to use more high valve product when fillers are cheaper. Reduction in price of WPC will just increase they margin if anything. All business are profit driven after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eLm0 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 This is pretty simple economics of supply and demand which apply especially to something commodotized like milk... The government/Fonterra are obsessed with growth at all costs meaning the dairy sector is less resilient so more vulnerable to volatile global prices and things like droughts This in combination with the increase in milk production from US and Europe means that there is an abundance of supply In addition China's significant reduction in demand and Russia pulling out of the market means that there is reduction in demand. i.e. there is a figurative mountain of milk in the world What does this mean for whey?All of this and the weakened NZ dollar means that is that it is cheaper to manufacture and export whey products and more expensive to import.This is why when the NZ dollar was strong, US brands were selling for a fair bit cheaper than usual.Want to help the economy? Buy NZ made (grass fed might I add!) whey!!! Pseudonym 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Mmm grass fed whey - did you know that the NZ dairy industry is the worlds biggest user of PKE? Not only are we number one for dairy we're also number one for PKE - palm kernal expeller aka not-grass. NZ imported 2,200,000 tonnes of PKE in 2014, that's an absolute shitload and quite nicely seems to be ignored when people say our cows are 100% grassfed.Not that I like to tell on anyone, but I'm not a huge fan of Indonesian and Malaysian rain forest destruction just to make NZers feel better about not destroying our own forests.http://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?country=nz&commodity=palm-kernel-meal&graph=imports http://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?commodity=palm-kernel-meal&graph=imports NZ Dairy is mostly grass fed however unfortunately not 100% grass fed: http://www.good.net.nz/article/2012/07/the-milky-way"By most standards, intensive dairying also means that the cows – ruminants accustomed to digesting grass – chow down instead on a steady diet of all manner of other food products. On the Williams’ farm, in addition to hay and silage, everything from potato chips to bread was on the bovine buffet. “We used to get a truckload of bread every week and spend half a day taking it out of its plastic wrap. We were even feeding them doughnuts,” Jeff says. “So, you name it, we fed it to the cows, and we were doing fantastic for production. At the time we thought we were doing very well.” Imported palm kernel expeller or PKE, a crop for which Fonterra has come under fire and that many, including Greenpeace, link to widespread deforestation in South East Asia, was also a staple. It seems nonsensical, but for the Williams and many other farmers trying to squeeze ever-higher yields from their cows, it’s good business. More often than not, conventional farmers use supplementary feeds alongside silage and grain to boost production. But this vexing cycle necessitates the advice of consultants to balance the nutritional value of extra feeds like potatoes and pizza waste or tallow and chocolate. “If you’re feeding cows grass, you don’t need to question what you’re doing,” says Jeff, “but once you start feeding supplements, you need the advice of an expert.”Trouble is, doughnuts and other such fodder doesn’t make for healthy cows. Acidosis, a dietary imbalance, can lead to diarrhea, indigestion, liver abscesses and in some cases, death. Laminitis, a constriction of the capillaries in the hooves that causes lameness, is also linked to diet. Nor is it a problem just for the cows. It’s estimated that nearly half of all antibiotics worldwide are used on livestock and University of Cambridge researchers identified new antibiotic-resistant bacteria in both humans and cows as recently as June 2011. Farmers around the country are dealing with the same challenges, says Nicole, and while not all biological farmers have stopped using PKE or eliminated the use of urea, it is the end goal for many. “If you’re putting poor quality in, you’re only going to get poor quality out,” she says." Boosting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Mmm grass fed whey - did you know that the NZ dairy industry is the worlds biggest user of PKE? Not only are we number one for dairy we're also number one for PKE - palm kernal expeller aka not-grass.Wow. That's a pretty eye-opening statistic. Especially when your graph shows Australia using just a tiny fraction of the PKE that we do. I notice the US and a few other countries aren't on that list though. Any idea why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I assume the US don't need PKE as they grain feed. PKE is used as a supplement to grass, however the US keep most keep their dairy cows either permanantly indoors or on paddocks of dirt as opposed to grass, and just fed them grain - the grain crop production being subsidised by the US government so much more economical and allowing the dairy cows to be much more intensively farmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eLm0 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Mmm grass fed whey - did you know that the NZ dairy industry is the worlds biggest user of PKE? Not only are we number one for dairy we're also number one for PKE - palm kernal expeller aka not-grass. NZ imported 2,200,000 tonnes of PKE in 2014, that's an absolute shitload and quite nicely seems to be ignored when people say our cows are 100% grassfed. Hmmm... Before criticizing the environmental credibility of our dairy industry one should put things into context :-) : - PKE is a waste by-product of the palm oil industry. It only makes up around 1% of plam oil's value. This mean PKE does not drive the destruction of those SE Asian forests... You wouldn't say recycling of plastic drives the oil industry...- PKE is a waste by-product meaning that it would be left to be discarded. This is a value-adding solution. Essentially recycling- PKE makes up less than 1% of NZ dairy feed, 95% grass and the remainder is hay/silage/grains. The large importation stats are a result of drought and the fear of not being able to feed the cows on grass, this is not the norm. Lets not forget the other advantages of NZ whey:- Antibiotics are illegal in the dairy industry, No chemical residues, No hormones (rBST is illegal in NZ) All I am saying is NZ whey is vastly superior to US whey :yes: “U.S. society will soon demand that agriculture back off, at least to some extent, from confinement and pay greater attention to agricultural animal comfort and happiness.” - The Journal of Dairy Sciences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron_R Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I assume the US don't need PKE as they grain feed. PKE is used as a supplement to grass, however the US keep most keep their dairy cows either permanantly indoors or on paddocks of dirt as opposed to grass, and just fed them grain - the grain crop production being subsidised by the US government so much more economical and allowing the dairy cows to be much more intensively farmed. My non-scientific opinion is that much of the US Dairy/Beef/Chicken industries are fed on corn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 PKE is a waste by-product of the palm oil industry. It only makes up around 1% of plam oil's value. This mean PKE does not drive the destruction of those SE Asian forests... You wouldn't say recycling of plastic drives the oil industry...------------- Haha yeah, sorry I don't buy into that argument, that's what Fonterra says. That aint recycling, that's an under the table endorsment of deforestation. That's essentially saying - "No I don't agree with deforestation, but yes I'll pay you for your left over bits so that we don't have to burn off our forests and grow our own palm trees to feed our out of control dairy industry". Lots of people try to avoid palm oil products yet probably don't realise how much "waste by-product" is used to produce milk. -------------Maybe read what greenpeace as opposed to the dairy industry says about ithttp://www.greenpeace.org/new-zealand/en/reports/palm-kernel-briefing/ "Fonterra's half owned subsidiary RD1 joined forces with Wilmar in a joint venture. Wilmar grows palm, and as a result is one of the world's biggest rainforest destroyers. A quarter of the world's supply of PKE comes into New Zealand mainly to feed cows on Fonterra owned dairy farms. The import of PKE is contributing directly to the destruction of rainforest - the habitat for so many unique and endangered species, and the home to millions of indigenous people. "Palm Kernel is just a by-product of a by-product"Palm kernel expeller is not a waste by-product - it is a lucrative economic part of the destructive palm oil business. The three main end products of the palm plantation business are Crude Palm Oil (for food), Palm Kernel Oil (for cosmetics, etc) and Palm Kernel Expeller (used for animal feed).According to the Malaysian Palm Oil Board palm kernel expeller "is also an important product from the oil palm industry that generate substantial export earnings for Malaysia."Last year New Zealand spent over 300 million dollars on PKE. That money went into palm oil companies' profits to be spent on clearing more rainforest. ------------- Yes I agree with you that NZ dairy/whey is superior to USA and most other dairy nations, however it's not clean green NZ like the like to make out. Sorry, no antibiotics aren't illegal in NZ dairy, otherwise you'd have some seriously dead cows. rBST and that type of rubbish is fortunately. Boosting and maccaz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eLm0 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 "Fonterra's half owned subsidiary RD1 joined forces with Wilmar in a joint venture. Wilmar grows palm, and as a result is one of the world's biggest rainforest destroyers. A quarter of the world's supply of PKE comes into New Zealand mainly to feed cows on Fonterra owned dairy farms. The import of PKE is contributing directly to the destruction of rainforest - the habitat for so many unique and endangered species, and the home to millions of indigenous people. "Palm Kernel is just a by-product of a by-product"Palm kernel expeller is not a waste by-product - it is a lucrative economic part of the destructive palm oil business. The three main end products of the palm plantation business are Crude Palm Oil (for food), Palm Kernel Oil (for cosmetics, etc) and Palm Kernel Expeller (used for animal feed).According to the Malaysian Palm Oil Board palm kernel expeller "is also an important product from the oil palm industry that generate substantial export earnings for Malaysia."Last year New Zealand spent over 300 million dollars on PKE. That money went into palm oil companies' profits to be spent on clearing more rainforest. ------------- Yes I agree with you that NZ dairy/whey is superior to USA and most other dairy nations, however it's not clean green NZ like the like to make out. Sorry, no antibiotics aren't illegal in NZ dairy, otherwise you'd have some seriously dead cows. rBST and that type of rubbish is fortunately. Maybe that's why Fonterra is a member of RSPO? (Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil) which is a non-profit organisation (Set up by WWF) to promote the growth and use of sustainable palm oil products... Whilst greenpeace is criticizing the use PKE, WWF is attempting to provide a solution. Do you prefer for cows have inadequate nutrition in times of drought? Because that is the alternative. PKE contributes to animal wellbeing. Cows gotta get those macros too mate.PKE = fibre and fatMaize = starch --"Last year New Zealand spent over 300 million dollars on PKE."--The 2013 drought was the worst in NZ since 1945 --- "Sorry, no antibiotics aren't illegal in NZ dairy, otherwise you'd have some seriously dead cows. rBST and that type of rubbish is fortunately."--Yea, I mean there is a residual limit for antibiotics in NZ dairy products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 "Do you prefer for cows have inadequate nutrition in times of drought? Because that is the alternative. PKE contributes to animal wellbeing." You seem to agree with deforestation of other countries as long as it benefits NZ. I guess it's fine then that PKE is good for NZ dairy, we don't need those pesky non productive animals in Indonesia or Malaysia as they're not contributing to our economy. "Maybe that's why Fonterra is a member of RSPO? (Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil) which is a non-profit organisation (Set up by WWF) to promote the growth and use of sustainable palm oil products..." Funnily enough this only applies to Palm Oil, not PKE. As PKE is a "Waste by product" it doesn't doesn't have to offer any traceability from Sustainably farmed palm oil plantations, and can come from anywhere. Supplier members of the RSPO must be working in line with RSPO guidelines and timeframes towards 100% sustainability. Full traceability of oil is part of this process. At this time, as a by- product such a standard does not exist for PKE. 1. Significant economic, social or environmental obstacles Fonterra is a major user of PKE - we use only 17,00 MT of Palm Oil. For this volume there is sufficient infrastructure and volumes to address our sustainability requirements. With PKE this is not the case. Neither is there infrastructure to support physical traceability nor volumes (not until at least 2020). The RSPO is focused on palm oil - but needs to consider the derivatives of palm oil, such as PKE. "Whilst greenpeace is criticizing the use PKE, WWF is attempting to provide a solution." Just because they are RSPO certified doesn't mean they're doing what they should be. PalmOil Buyers ScoreCard 2013The Palm Oil Buyers Scorecard assesses 130 major retailers, food service companies and manufacturers worldwide on how much certified sustainable palm oil they use. Some companies are making excellent progress - while others are seriously lagging behind. In 2013 Adani Wilmar, which sells Palm oil and PKE to Fonterra scored a rather shite 1 point out of 12, it was tied for second to last worst position with 4 other companies. http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/palm_oil/solutions/responsible_purchasing/ PKE sold by Fonterra’s subsidiary RD1 is bought from INL, who import it from a single source, Wilmar International.Strangely enough while fonterra buy PKE off a company called INL who are buying it from Wilmar - a NZ company called RD1 set up the company INL in collaboration with Wilmar, and fonterra have 50% shares in RD1. So technically fonterra are buying PKE off themselves, and Wilmar are clipping the ticket twice. Boosting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gym rat Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 With the cost of milk prices falling. Wonder if this reduces the cost of supplements firms from overseas who ship there whey to nz and makes things cheaper for the average consumer on buying whey depending on which brand that they want to buy at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaz Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 With the cost of milk prices falling. Wonder if this reduces the cost of supplements firms from overseas who ship there whey to nz and makes things cheaper for the average consumer on buying whey depending on which brand that they want to buy at the time.Yes thats a good question its a wonder nobody has already asked that same question in this thread even Boosting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11503190 Very in-depth article (I'm still slugging my way through it) but pretty interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florent Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Hello, I was interested in grass-fed whey protein from NZ (I actually live in Europe) but from what I see doing some research is that grass-fed isolate whey has no real advantage. This is an extract from the bodybuilding.com's forum : Quote Grass-fed animal fat is better. Grass-fed meat is better. Grass-fed dairy is definitely better. But grass-fed whey isolate is unnecessary. The most commonly cited reasons for preferring grass-fed animal products to grain-fed animal products. * Grass-fed has better fatty acids. More omega-3, more CLA. Whey isolate contains no fat. * Grass-fed has a better micronutrient profile. More minerals, more vitamins. Whey isolate contains neither minerals nor vitamins. * Grass-fed has a better taste. Some say it’s “gamey,” I say it actually tastes like an animal. Whey isolate has no flavor, so “better” doesn’t enter the equation. Anyway, concentrate whey can have an advantage, so my question is how can I found Balance whey protein in Europe ? you are not present on Amazon neither you appear in Google Shopping results. Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donz Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Damn... came to thread for cheap whey links... left a double major in economics and dairy farming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 That's the thing about this forum, Donz. If you're not careful, it can lull you into complacency, them BAM! - it'll educate you when you least expect it. On 24/02/2017 at 0:44 AM, Florent said: my question is how can I found Balance whey protein in Europe ? you are not present on Amazon neither you appear in Google Shopping results. @eLm0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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