When is 3 reps worth more than 5?

[Pseudonym]

This is one of those questions that will either make me look really clever, or really dumb...

 

As I've mentioned once or twice recently, I've just started doing the 5/3/1 routine. This involves constantly changing the weights and the reps. So one week I'll do 5 reps on 65%, then 75%, then 85% of my 1RM. The next week it'll be 3 reps of 70%, 80%, 90%.

 

So my question is this... Is pushing 90% for 3 reps "worth more" than pushing 85% for 5 reps? I presume this is a forwards progression - but how?

 

And is there a point at which 3 reps would provide "equal" stress as 5 reps? :think:

[Spacebound]

my 2c

 

Getting stronger is about accumulating more volume over time, thats what this program does and is really the basis to any strength program. By using the same reps and percents but adding more weight.

 

I think using different rep ranges provides different stimulus and allows your body to adapt to heavy weights. As thats what it is designed to do, peak you for a 1rm. Its not about being able to be able to the strongest set of 5 or 3, its do the strongest single. But to do that you need to get stronger at sets of 5 and 3. 

 

Idk about stress, but 3reps would be less volume than 5 at those percentages. So in terms of stress relating to volume, then no, it wouldnt be equal. But it doesnt matter as it is programmed to be way as the program runs in cycles (3-4weeks) and volume accumulates over the cycle.

 

 

someone will probably make a better point but this is just what i think

[GyzzBrah]

Going by what maccaz and realtalk have said, how much volume is enough?

 

Say I do 3x3 at rpe 10, but if I should really do 5 sets or even 8 sets with the same weight, the rpe I would do each set at would have to be 8 or even less. When your back and joints are fked after 3x3 thats another issue.

 

So what better, 3x3 at rpe 10 or 3x 8 etc at rpe 7-8?

[yeelang]

u get a slightly different functional response, 3 rep is going to have slightly more benefits for specificity, motor unit recruitment etc.

[Realtalk]

Going by what maccaz and realtalk have said, how much volume is enough?

 

Say I do 3x3 at rpe 10, but if I should really do 5 sets or even 8 sets with the same weight, the rpe I would do each set at would have to be 8 or even less. When your back and joints are fked after 3x3 thats another issue.

 

So what better, 3x3 at rpe 10 or 3x 8 etc at rpe 7-8?

What did I say?

[Spacebound]

Going by what maccaz and realtalk have said, how much volume is enough?

 

Say I do 3x3 at rpe 10, but if I should really do 5 sets or even 8 sets with the same weight, the rpe I would do each set at would have to be 8 or even less. When your back and joints are fked after 3x3 thats another issue.

 

So what better, 3x3 at rpe 10 or 3x 8 etc at rpe 7-8?

 

gurubrah at it again

[Pseudonym]

So what better, 3x3 at rpe 10 or 3x 8 etc at rpe 7-8?

Hang on, I think that was MY question! You can't ask my own question back at me!

 

 

Idk about stress, but 3reps would be less volume than 5 at those percentages. So in terms of stress relating to volume, then no, it wouldnt be equal. But it doesnt matter as it is programmed to be way as the program runs in cycles (3-4weeks) and volume accumulates over the cycle.

That's what I'm struggling to get my head around. I understand that over multiple cycles there is a progression in the weight, but volume would stay the same (you're not doing any more reps after the 10th cycle than you were on the first - it's just the weight that has increased).

 

And given that volume actually decreases within each cycle (as you go from 5-rep sets, then to 3, then to 1) what I'm struggling to understand is how this "going backwards" is a progression.

 

How do you go backwards for 4 weeks, then end up ahead of where you started?!

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm sure the 5-3-1 routine is working for me. I just want to know how!

[yeelang]

it's a move from volume to intensity. the intensity phase is realizing the gains made in the volume phase.

 

take a look at general adaptation syndrome

[Spacebound]

Hang on, I think that was MY question! You can't ask my own question back at me!

 

 

That's what I'm struggling to get my head around. I understand that over multiple cycles there is a progression in the weight, but volume would stay the same (you're not doing any more reps after the 10th cycle than you were on the first - it's just the weight that has increased).

 

And given that volume actually decreases within each cycle (as you go from 5-rep sets, then to 3, then to 1) what I'm struggling to understand is how this "going backwards" is a progression.

 

How do you go backwards for 4 weeks, then end up ahead of where you started?!

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm sure the 5-3-1 routine is working for me. I just want to know how!

 

volume in this sense is weight x reps x sets = xxxx kgs

 

you have to look at the cycle not as the 5 week or 1 week but as the 5, 3, and 1 week, plus a deload if you use it. 

 

As yeelang said it transitions from volume to intensity within the cycle, you see alot of top powerlifters do this. They will start off using volume blocks to accumulate massive amounts of volume and then move into intensity blocks and then even taper the volume off further to peak for a meet. 

 

 

edit:

 

This will make you stronger as your body adapts to the stimulus. But you may not see this within the cycle as you incur a fatigue debt, this will make you slightly weaker, which is good. It shows you have been accumulating volume. Once you recover from this fatigue debt your body will be stronger than it was before. 

 

Something like that anyway

[maccaz]

volume in this sense is weight x reps x sets = xxxx kgs

you have to look at the cycle not as the 5 week or 1 week but as the 5, 3, and 1 week, plus a deload if you use it.

As yeelang said it transitions from volume to intensity within the cycle, you see alot of top powerlifters do this. They will start off using volume blocks to accumulate massive amounts of volume and then move into intensity blocks and then even taper the volume off further to peak for a meet.

edit:

This will make you stronger as your body adapts to the stimulus. But you may not see this within the cycle as you incur a fatigue debt, this will make you slightly weaker, which is good. It shows you have been accumulating volume. Once you recover from this fatigue debt your body will be stronger than it was before.

Something like that anyway

Exactly. Dont fret about what you're doing in the workouts just let the program work and test maxes when supposed to and should be pleasantly suprised.

[Pseudonym]

Interesting. Cheers, everyone - them's some good answers! :nod:

 

And Maccaz... not fretting, just curious, mate!

[Wookie]

http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/11672-Prilepin-Chart-and-How-To-Design-Your-Own-Powerlifting-Program

Basically what I use

[HumanPerformance]

I think everyone has missed the point of why strength cycles like 5/3/1 are designed the way they are, but anyway.

[Pseudonym]

I think everyone has missed the point of why strength cycles like 5/3/1 are designed the way they are, but anyway.

So explain!

[HumanPerformance]

If I get time over the weekend ☺

[Cameron_R]

How's the program going now Pseudo?

And where's that explanation HP?

[Pseudonym]

I'm currently 10 weeks in, so just finishing up the 3rd cycle. TBH the first 4-week cycle was more about getting a handle on whether my estimated weights were any good - so it's probably more like 6 productive weeks from a gains point of view.

 

All lifts are increasing, and I've gained (or rather, regained) 5kg in that time. There'll be a bit of fat in that, but it's pretty lean.

 

So still early days, but I'm loving it so far.