Clean Eating vs IIFYM

[Skeletor]

Im sure there's been a million threads on this but what do you all follow? Currently im just trying to eat good meals and not following and plan but will eat junk food when it suits. Ive always thought to myself that a calorie isnt a calorie when you compare good food with crap but a lot of people seem to be pushing IIFYM and I know jack shit about nutrition. Any of you tried the both? How did you feel physically and mentally eating clean vs IIFYM? My goal is to gain mass to get stronger and realise ill gain a bit of fat but I dont want to be a lardass. So what in your opinion is the best way to go about a strength/ size gain diet wise?

[Leeroid]

With IIFYM, it's still hard to eat dirty. Most junk food is high in fat/carbs and one junk meal will quickly fill up your daily allocation of fat or carbs. Of course, it does allow more flexibility in your diet. I think people get mislead by IIFYMers posting pics of junk food with the caption "still fits my macros" but they probably have to eat extremely clean for the rest of the day.

Imo IIFYM is essentially clean eating. If you are on maintenance cals or less then your macros wont allow for much more than one small treat a day.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

With IIFYM, it's still hard to eat dirty. Most junk food is high in fat/carbs and one junk meal will quickly fill up your daily allocation of fat or carbs. Of course, it does allow more flexibility in your diet. I think people get mislead by IIFYMers posting pics of junk food with the caption "still fits my macros" but they probably have to eat extremely clean for the rest of the day.

Imo IIFYM is essentially clean eating. If you are on maintenance cals or less then your macros wont allow for much more than one small treat a day.

 

agreed, and really that's the key... clean or dirty, you're still eating towards a total caloric goal.

 

using iifym for my lean bulk and liking it, as tom says there's not a lot of room to binge out anyway and the other aspect which wasn't mentioned was that if you fill up most of your cals with junk you just won't have the energy to train hard enough to bulk effectively/efficiently.

 

i eat my own home made food (not necessarily 'clean' but usually not crappy either) and use junks as snacks / to help cheat my way to target if i missed out. i cleared my system of crap a long time ago and never have cravings for sugary or random junk foods anyway and with allowing myself to eat that when i want, there is simply no need for 'cheat days'... doubt this approach would work for someone prepping for a bb comp but since i'm not, i'm not gonna be an asswipe and subject myself to that lifestyle

[Clueless]

I use myfitnesspal. I hit protein for the day and normally some, then just go for calorie total. Dont try and get a perfect 40/40/20 or whatever ratio is in at the moment.

 

 

I often think if eating clean would maybe have a tighter physique (if that makes sense) less water retention etc. No idea if true or not. End of day if either way works for you do it

[Pseudonym]

Imo IIFYM is essentially clean eating. If you are on maintenance cals or less then your macros wont allow for much more than one small treat a day.

So true - unfortunately!

[Realtalk]

a calorie isn't a calorie, by definition it is but its not. There are good protein sources, good carb sources and good far sources... There are absolute shit protein sources, carb sources and fat sources. 60g protein from chicken breast is better than 60g protein from luncheon sausage filled with soy lecithin or whatever shits in it. That kind of protein doesn't grow muscle. I understand the calorie total and probably fat content would be different between these examples and probably most examples I could try and give, and if that's the case then there isn't really actually that much freedom Is there? Iifym disregards meal timing and frequency of meals... I don't know anyone doing anything great who doesn't care about the importance pre workout nutrition and these guys even don't eat post workout... Fasting blah blah blah. I like to keep it simple stupid so that the stupidest people can understand it, ironically the stupidest people are often the most complicated when it comes to this kind of thing.

Do people enjoy sitting on a calorie calculator crunching numbers Seeing what they can eat? F dat.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

does iifym call for fasting and/or no preworkout/post workout meals? i thought that was something else entirely, all i ever thought of it was allowing for flexibility to reach ones nutrition goals.. anyone who trains should find it glaringly obvious the difference a good preworkout meal can make to your strength in the gym. screw fasting before and/or after lol.. experimented IF before and found didn't cut the mustard for long term gains.

 

you don't need to count cals after a while either, i think its good for all beginners to count atleast for a little to get used to proper portion control. if i didn't bother learning about those things when i started out i never would have made any gains, because my uneducated means of 'keeping it simple' was to binge out on foods that made other people my age fat, then i sat there wondering why i was not gaining and how much of a hard gainer i am.

 

.. so i guess you are right, iifym is not as free / simple as it may appear on the surface, unless you are on a really high surplus. you have to have some fundamentals down to make it work is that what you meant?

[Realtalk]

The ppl who preech and regurgitate the iifym information are the same ppl likley to spin the same crap about meal timing and meal frequency.

Well yeah I'm saying if you have a calorie limit to stick to and goals you have to hit in regards to p/c/f for a bodybulder then it's pretty obvious what you're going to be eating. The same shit as everybody bodybuilding apart from maybe you can have a shitty version of a pizza or something.

[maccaz]

main thing i hate about iifym especially for trying to lose weight is junk-ish food is nowhere near filling as "clean"

 

try eat 2000 cal/day junk food then 2000cal chicken, rice, oats, veg, or whatever the next day, and tell me which one was more satisfying and kept you full and energised for the whole day

 

iifym prob got its place for people that actually struggle to gain weight and chuck in extra calorie dense foods to make up calories but for normal person that wants stable energy levels through the day etc iifym is a crock of shit.

[Realtalk]

I just eat breakfast, lunch, dinner, pre and post workout. High protein, high carb, low fat. Pretty simple, probably too simple for most people. Doesn't really matter what you follow, consistency is the most important factor.

[Spacebound]

I follow iifym, and since I have progress has been a lot better. The main reason I follow it, is because i struggle to eat enough. Even now I'm in a deficit and i could still easily eat less.

I though meal timing and frequency had been debunked as bro science?

Isn't it best to get a different range of protein to get a variety of amino acids?

I think it's a common misconception that people who are on/follow iffym is that people just eat shit all day. So far today I've eaten

32g whey
600ml lite milk
15g milo
80g oats
140g yoghurt
80g banana
2slices of vogels
3whole eggs
60g ham

It's not super clean nor is it perfect but it's easy and what I feel like eating for the most part. I don't really see why people hate iifym.

As for finding it hard to count cals. It's phucking easy 95% of the time

[jimmybro1]

Whatever method you do its IIFYM as your meeting your daily required marconutrients. 

 

No need to complicate it. Eat less calories loss weight, eat more gain weight. Body isn't going to care where your food it coming from. 

[Realtalk]

For muscle growth it will.

[Realtalk]

Spacebound - who said it's bro science? A small weak person probably. Why do all top athletes in works religiously follow diets and have nutritionists tell them when to eat to perform at their peak. Because nutrition is s huge part of that... It's common sense do you think you could train better properly fueled by planning your meal timings pre workout? Or do you think you'll just perform well in the gym regardless, that you can just put no thought what so ever into it... Perhaps even just turn up in a fasted state. You need to eat well (by well I'm not just talking about calories and macros) to perform at your peak. Performance = results. If you're performing at your peak in the gym you're going to get better results arent you? It's simple.

And what you mean different protein sources for different amino acids? Yeah chicken, fish, beef... Not processed meats like sausages etc that's not good protein. Protein isn't protein.

It's simple yes, but looking at it like that is making it too simple that no one knows what the f*ck they are eating as long as they are "hitting their protein bro".

[maccaz]

one other thing

of course iifym gets lots of people preaching it

everyones going to follow the nutritionist/guru/coach that gives them the answer they wanna hear

 

its like gym rat having 2 coaches

 

one of them says he has to eat 5 clean meals a day

 

the other one tells him he can eat sushi and blueberry muffins and whatever the f*ck else it is that he enjoys, (fruit loops probably) whenever he wants

 

 

of course he is going to vouch for the one he finds easier, whether it is the better solution or not

 

same as all josef rakich followers, he tells them they can eat mcdonalds so instantly they love him because anyone else tells them they cant lol

 

thats my opinion on it anyway

[GyzzBrah]

I think the best way to describe it would be a scale, with 0 the start point where everything starts "working", but the further along you go on the scale (effort), the more additional benefits u get.

 

0 = eat less calories

1 = eat less + macros

2 = eat less + macros + clean food

 

etc...

 

Saying this because a doctor lost weight eating mcd every day. Sure, but he coulda lost more eating rice.

[Spacebound]

 

 

All valid points. 

 

I was referring to meal timing as in eating 5/6meals spaced 2-3hours apart. I see people eating two large meals a day and they seem to be doing fine. Naturally if you took it to the other send of the scale, by eating random meals with no regard for anything other that calories than that is going to f*ck you up. But why would anyone do that? its not logical.

 

But professional athletes probably spend $X000's a month on food, extracting every last part of diminishing returns they can. Top athletes follow there diets religiously because that is their job. I didnt say that you shouldnt eat well, infact im sure its probably better in the long run for you. But its debatable as what is truly optimal as it will vary from person to person and there are so many variables in 'eating well'. 

 

I personally dont train fasted as i enjoy training with some carbs in system. But some people seem to perform at a high level fasted. For example athletes who train early morning, like surfers, runners, rowers etc (yes they arent weight lifters.). I also enjoy a meal post workout as i feel drained. 

 

 

By different protein sources, for example some are high in leucine which is probably the most important amino acid, arguably for building muscle. Which is highest in milk (i think) aswell as being high in beef/chicken/fish/egg. 

 

Heres a semi relevant article, the guy who wrote it has a PHD in nutrition and is a world class powerlifter.

http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-truth-about-protein.html

 

 

What im trying to say is that its important to have a well balanced diet which takes into consideration training. And there is no reason why this cant be achieved through iifym. 

[Dreadmouse]

i think IIFYM is all about putting in 20% effort to get 80% of the result. Im sure you can get pretty lean or reasonably strong following it. But its not "optimal" Its easy to fit in with a normal persons lifestyle.

 

I follow it to a certain degree, mainly to be able to eat normally in social situations etc.

[Realtalk]

Layne Nortons views do go somewhat against the norm... Practising and preeching are two separate things. I just wonder how much of what he says he actually follows. I'm not a scientist, a dietician nor do I call myself a nutritionalist but i do have common sense. I recognise that I need to be well fuelled pre workout to give the most I can during my training session. I also recognise that I need to refuel post workout to recover and above all this makes me feel physically and mentally good, refuelling. I also recognise that at relatively lean 106kg if I want to make progress which is gaining muscle and getting stronger I need to eat multiple times per day. I can't fit the food I need to consume in 2 or 3 meals. I need to spread the fuel over at least 5 meals per day if not 6 sometimes 7. It also makes sense to me to spread these out reasonably evenly.

Call it bro-science meh it's working.

[Kalidane]

^^ What you're describing is the only practical way to take in relatively high calories without relying on lard (except at the weekend where a nap after a 4k calorie meal is pretty sweet).

 

It doesn't even matter if there are/aren't benefits to 4/5/6/7/8 meals per day.  The more frequently you eat, the more likely you are to avoid hunger, and the easier it is to hit your macros and calories (where these are large numbers).  It is a practical solution.  If there are further benefits, then yaaay!

 

For people looking to shrink, the same approach still minimises hunger, and provides a recent memory of eating which reduces the risk of 'omfg I haven't eaten in 6 hours i need a cake. a whole cake.' (or whatever it is people think...).

 

For people who believe they struggle to maintain energy levels through the day, there is a simple blood test you can go do (self refer - no GP needed).  Unless you have a smashed badger for insulin response, the problem is not related to your diet nor frequency of feeding.  And f*ck off in advance to wheat belly.

 

 

KISS

[Riccardo]

"Clean eating's definition of processed foods is rather extreme and unnecessary, but the basic premise isn't all bad. Eat lots of fruits and vegetables, avoid highly processed foods, be mindful of added fat, salt, and sugar, eat regularly during the day, don't drink your calories, and exercise often. That doesn't sound like any kind of special diet to me, it just sounds like a healthy lifestyle."

http://web.extension.illinois.edu/blogs/eb339/entry_9327/

[yeelang]

Problem with IIFYM is some proponents don't advocate meal timing, which I think is an important part of an optimal diet.

 

Clean eating has no quantitative analysis, so I don't think it's for an advanced lifter.