Post injection pain - virgin muscles or bad gear

[Jessechea]

Hey guys,

So my brother and I just started our first cycle. We pinned the ventrogluteal region on Monday with 1cc of test e. Followed all proper procedures, both injections went great with zero pain.

Fast forward two days, and the site is hurting like a bish, think training legs yesterday didn't help either ha. There is no brusing, redness, swelling, it's just really sore, and I'm finding walking a challenge. My brother is also experiencing the same pain.

So I'm wondering, is this an indication our gear is bad, or rather our muscles reacting to a foreign substance? If the latter is true, Is it fair to assume that the next place we pin will also be sore as it's a new muscle and our bodies are adjusting?

Thanks heaps in advance

[rapz]

Most likely virgin muscles

if swelling, rednesss or its hot to touch in the next few days then i would start to question the gear

[Leeroid]

If you think about it, you've just put a lump of oil in your muscle. Of course it's gonna be sore at first. The first 3 or 4 times you inject into the muscle it'll be sore for a few days. If it's still sore after multiple injections though then your gear is most likely filthy or too high in solvents.

[rapz]

.

[rapz]

just curious OP what is your training history and stats etc?

[Jessechea]

Sweet, thanks guys. Had to give work a miss today, think I was hit with the test flu too ha.

^5'11", 80kgs, 10-12% bf. I've been lifting on and off since I was a young'un in college, I'm 22 now

[Emjay_jizzle@hotmail.co.nz]

Hygiene should also b looked at iv been pinning the same brand for more than 3 cycles and have had no issues. One day I decided to pin both my biceps splitting the dose into both arms. Used separate needles abs still got one red badly swallon arm and the other was fine. I put it down to lack if hygiene on my behalf

[donz]

Ive found out of the gazillion jabs I've done now I've only ever had post pain if I push oil in too fast rather than slow, steady and sometimes just chill with breaks during to let it do what it does. Never pinned that area and my earlier pins with new muscle were way nicer than doing same spot for the 50th time breaking dat cute layer of scar tissue~ 

Not an expert by any means but personal pref for best shots for me have been quads on both legs when doing 2+ ml and for smaller 1-1.5 ml delts, but hey that's just personal pref and not rocket science 

[Jessechea]

Switched to delts and experiencing little to no pip. Definitely my go to spot lol

[Ketogains]

Not an expert, not pretending to be but i found that SubQ injections worked just as well infact it seemed to affect me faster or more intensly .

Some say not to SubQ because of possible enhanced risk of gyno - doctors that i have seen talking about this say thats was just theory and no studies have shown this to be true.

I used Test Cyp at  500mg / week for 6 weeks a while ago and after limping round the gym for a few dyas i thought f*ck that. and never went into a muscle again. i dont know if its suitablefor other drugs but for test cyp it was good. end of cycle i poped in a bit of sust to give me a slow taper off also SubQ.

You get a little hard lump that goes away around ablt 6-8 days for cyp and longer for the sust bout 3 weeks - thats related to the rate of absorbtion i guess.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has tried SubQ injections with other AAS's

also when you SubQ you can Z track easier - which basically means if you pull skin over to the side before inserting you can let it go after withdrawing and you get less seepage - did that sound dirty to you or is it just me?

[Terrymundo]

Not an expert, not pretending to be but i found that SubQ injections worked just as well infact it seemed to affect me faster or more intensly .

Some say not to SubQ because of possible enhanced risk of gyno - doctors that i have seen talking about this say thats was just theory and no studies have shown this to be true.

I used Test Cyp at  500mg / week for 6 weeks a while ago and after limping round the gym for a few dyas i thought f*ck that. and never went into a muscle again. i dont know if its suitablefor other drugs but for test cyp it was good. end of cycle i poped in a bit of sust to give me a slow taper off also SubQ.

You get a little hard lump that goes away around ablt 6-8 days for cyp and longer for the sust bout 3 weeks - thats related to the rate of absorbtion i guess.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has tried SubQ injections with other AAS's

also when you SubQ you can Z track easier - which basically means if you pull skin over to the side before inserting you can let it go after withdrawing and you get less seepage - did that sound dirty to you or is it just me?

subQ gear pinning???

 

you have my curiousity. ive done my fair share of internetings but have never heard of this. I was halfway typing "you retard, thats a waste of time and gear" how ever I will reserve judgement.

 

I personally like pinning IM dosn't hurt if hit the muscle a few times and it great way to bring up lagging body parts. if you cant handle a little PIP, maybe gear isnt for you. just saiyan

[Ketogains]

subQ gear pinning???

 

you have my curiousity. ive done my fair share of internetings but have never heard of this. I was halfway typing "you retard, thats a waste of time and gear" how ever I will reserve judgement.

 

I personally like pinning IM dosn't hurt if hit the muscle a few times and it great way to bring up lagging body parts. if you cant handle a little PIP, maybe gear isnt for you. just saiyan

Well admittedly i stumbled accross the Vid while looking at some info on test replacment therapy, doctor was advising in a YT vid that SubQ was easier and not, as theorised, prone to estrogen effects.

Here - i found one of the links i was visitng looking this up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98LOFQwUGA

My PCT stuff got stopped by customs but even then i got no sides except for the sluggish feeling of being low T- im seeing an Endo early in the new year to begin HRT. suspect i hqve been low T for a long time because the lethargic feeling is fairly normal for me even before doing the test cyp.

Its not that i cant handle the pip, but if i can cheat the pip and have the same benefits why not eh? if IM was the only way which i will continue to evaluate from my own results ill go back to it and bear the sore bum as the price of progress   

[Leeroid]

After a few injections it shouldn't hurt even if taken iM. Your gear is prob dirty or something

[Pseudonym]

 

SubQ was easier and not, as theorised, prone to estrogen effects.

Is that the reason AAS has always been injected intra-muscularly? I looked at the vid you linked, and he mentions that fatty tissue was where the aromatase enzyme was produced, so people avoided putting testosterone there. But that seems a pretty dubious theory - surely everything works systemically, not locally.

Was that the only argument against subQ injections?

[Ketogains]

I think you are quite right and the docs findings from 'many dozens" of his own patients lab results seem to confirm  it if you take him at his word

 

SubQ was easier and not, as theorised, prone to estrogen effects.

Is that the reason AAS has always been injected intra-muscularly? I looked at the vid you linked, and he mentions that fatty tissue was where the aromatase enzyme was produced, so people avoided putting testosterone there. But that seems a pretty dubious theory - surely everything works systemically, not locally.

Was that the only argument against subQ injections?

I think you are quite right and the docs findings from 'many dozens" of his own patients lab results seem to confirm  it if you take him at his word.

[Pseudonym]

Yeah, I just wondered if there were other reasons that AAS is injected intra-muscularly, or if that was it?

I suppose for some guys on higher doses, the sheer volume of oil might prevent subQ injections. Although, as the doctor says, with subQ it's easier to inject more often, so each shot could be smaller.

[atrollappears]

Switched to delts and experiencing little to no pip. Definitely my go to spot lol

Are you aware injecting delts as opposed to glutes can reduce the bioavailibility of compound from 78% to 53%.....

[donz]

So you're saying I could be  25% bigger if I stop injecting delts...?

[atrollappears]

So you're saying I could be  25% bigger if I stop injecting delts...?

Bioavailibility would be greater, make of that as you will...

[Leeroid]

What's the reasoning behind that? I'm assuming there are studies to back that up?

[Kalidane]

... everything works systemically, not locally...

 

 

... I suppose for some guys on higher doses, the sheer volume of oil might prevent subQ injections. Although, as the doctor says, with subQ it's easier to inject more often, so each shot could be smaller.

 

 

Trials in '05 and '06 showed sub-cut works fine (and may have more stable estro levels).  The downside is that for non-TRT levels, the volume just isn't practical.  Whole lotta bumps that hang around a while.  The upside is no muscle tissue scarring.

 

I have a feeling sub-cut was slower release but check it out if you're looking to do this.

 

[donz]

Haha I was just being cheeky - I assume availability just meant how fast it could access it but figured by my own personal logic that if you inject 1ml into whatever muscle it's all going to get used at some point? If it doesn't then what does the body do with the left over? 

[atrollappears]

What's the reasoning behind that? I'm assuming there are studies to back that up?

Based on the area under the

curve estimates for these two subjects, the absolute bioavailability

of nandrolone from i.m. injections of esters was significantly

higher for nandrolone decanoate injected into gluteal

muscle with a 1-ml volume (73%), compared with the other three groups (53–56%).

 

Minto CF, Howe C, Wishart S, Conway AJ, Handelsman DJ. Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nandrolone esters in oil vehicle: effects of ester, injection site and injection volume. J Pharmacol Exp Ther 1997;281(1):93-102. http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/281/1/93.full

 

[yeelang]

I don't suppose you have seen a study with non-estered compounds?

[atrollappears]

I don't suppose you have seen a study with non-estered compounds?

No.. Sorry..!! . I've got this off GH-15 from a post on steroid esters:

Testosterone however has tissue specific conversion to potent estrogens and androgens. So the a difference in rate of metabolisations impacts the effect it has on the body in terms of results and side-effects. When you inject testosterone suspension, you tend to blow up, because the bolus dose is heavily metabolized to both estrogen and DHT. It will also spike a steady increase in SHBG production to buffer it. This forms a tremendous base to build growth on, an anabolic environment, but it also drastically increases water retention, blood pressure and incidence of estrogenic side in those people prone to it. Ester testosterones do not have this problems because they slowly build up to a more stable dose, and despite small fluctuations is mostly kept stable throughout. This decrease the rate of metabolisation by spreading the testosterone out over time more. Even if you compare an acetate to a suspension, the acetate spreads the dose over 36-48 hours, where the base will enter blood within the hour. So while you might be inclined to use both on a daily basis, the effect is hugely different. This won?t apply to a huge amount of compounds, but it surely demonstrates that for testosterones, esters are more relevant than for most compounds. 

It doesn't mention bioavailibility but does suggest some compound loss through aromatase and 5-alpha reductase conversion.. Which would seem to be significant... But no figures.. Sorry..!!