Kalidane Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Just thinking about the simple math of it, doesn't it make sense for a natty to make use of an AI to get the most out of their test production?Chuck in whatever OTC test-booster with useful building blocks and you're maximising output and minimising conversion.Looking around the NZ stores and I see Nolvastar and Androstar look to be designed for just this. They cost a bit more than tic tacs though.Does anyone have experience with this approach?When I tested for Test back in April it came back mid-range for a 25 y/o male which seems like a good enough production level to play around with. Even a 15% increase in production with conversion dropped 20% makes for a big change from base line levels and that has to be noticable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Even a 15% increase in production with conversion dropped 20% makes for a big change from base line levels and that has to be noticable.Is that what these OTC products are promising? That's quite impressive! (Well, it is if they deliver!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalidane Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 :shifty: okay you caught me - I made those numbers up but I do have a vague recollection of some AI product mentioning a 35% drop in conversion. That sounds pretty damned big and I can't source it so we'll just call that BS for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phedder Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 You say this like lowering your estrogen levels is a good thing? Sure, when taking AAS and there's large amounts of testosterone being converted, raising the estrogen levels above normal, an AI can be a good thing. But for a natural with a normal estrogen level, lowering it further is not a good idea. Men need estrogen too, it's not just a female hormone. It has many important functions in the body, and I won't claim to understand or know all, or even many of them. I do know it is very important for bone and joint health, plays a role in neurotransmission as it is a neurosteroid, is involved in cholesterol metabolism, and many carrier and binding proteins.Unless you have high estrogen, and a good reason to want to lower it, don't mess with it. Whilst high testosterone is helpful, low estrogen is not a good thing. Eat and train smarter, you'll get better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZIDE Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalidane Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 sensible thingsWell I can't disagree because I think you're right. As you imply, I am looking for cheats/shortcuts.You made me see a hole in my thinking; namely that est. will be at it's proper level presently and anything that reduces it will start leading to the low est. issues you mention. I was thinking it just needed to be kept above a certain minimal level implying there was room to move without there being harm.Nonetheless (still looking for easy answers), much as AZIDE mentions, and assuming aromatisation rate is a linear function of test production, an achievable outcome could look like this:Boost test production 10% (test production now at 110% and est. level at 1.1 x base)Use AI to drop conversion by 1/11th (est. back to base level)=Happy days! Higher free test and unchanged est. levels using remarkably accurate dosing levels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I wouldn't discard the idea entirely, Kalidane. Sure, you don't want to get rid of estrogen completely, but let's face it - prescription meds struggle to do that, all an OTC supplement will do it lower it slightly (if it works at all!).Why would you want to? Well, apart from a harder appearance caused by less estrogen-related water retention, I believe lowering estrogen also increases testosterone.It's part of the body's feedback loop. Perhaps one of our steroid gurus can chime in, but here's my layman's understanding of the process...- Estrogen is produced when testosterone aromatises.- When estrogen levels get too low, a signal is sent for the body to produce more testosterone, so that in turn will create more estrogen.- By suppressing estrogen with a prescription aromatase inhibitor (AI), you can theoretically trick the body into producing more testosterone. It's PCT is supposed to work after an AAS cycle.So the theory is good. The question is, are the OTC AI products effective enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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