Opinion/advice on 2nd cycle.

[Daz69]

Why do you never speak of Cypionate?

All I ever hear is Sustanon and Enanthate?

Cypionate is way different to Enanthate, strips down body fat fast as, 500mg - 1000mg every 6 days and the fat melts away, Enanthate just makes your face puffy.

Your full of shite fat boy....

[snoopy]

THIS.......

Like Tom says if you gained well off your first cycle, you know you're gonna do the same again..... Eat more...!!!

Stick with Test-E, don't bother front loading Test-E hits the blood stream after about 2 days... Its only the compounded half-lifes that take about 21 days to reach maximal blood concentrations...... Unless you pin EOD with Sustanon you might not get steady blood levels, like you would pinning Test-e every third day, (or twice a week).........

Why do you never speak of Cypionate?

All I ever hear is Sustanon and Enanthate?

Cypionate is way different to Enanthate, strips down body fat fast as, 500mg - 1000mg every 6 days and the fat melts away, Enanthate just makes your face puffy.

:shock: :doh:

Please reference a study on this Snoopy or is this just 'in your experience' :-s

No I know what you mean, it is almost identical to Enanthate but due to the longer ester it has some different effects.

BTW don't forget that there is evidence to suggest that some people may have receptors that are more sensitive to certain compounds compared to other people.

-That was quoted from Robert Kennedy

[snoopy]

Collins, don't listen to anyone.

Make up your own mind based on your experiences regarding dose and compounds, you may be one of the few people that can grow off Winstrol alone you'll never know unless you seek.

More progression is lost to indecision than to bad decisions.

[snoopy]

Why do you never speak of Cypionate?

All I ever hear is Sustanon and Enanthate?

Cypionate is way different to Enanthate, strips down body fat fast as, 500mg - 1000mg every 6 days and the fat melts away, Enanthate just makes your face puffy.

Your full of shite fat boy....

Suck it bitch

[Pseudonym]

Cool it, guys. Name-calling helps no-one. :naughty:

it is almost identical to Enanthate but due to the longer ester it has some different effects.

Snoopy, I have two problems with that theory...

1) According to a quick Google search, the respective half lives are as follows:

Testosterone Cypionate 12 days

Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days

That doesn't seem too different to me?

2) Isn't the bloating caused by estrogen? Here's my rudimentary understanding of the process... Esterified testosterone is injected, ester falls off leaving testosterone free to do its thing. Some of that testosterone then aromatises to estrogen, which causes increased water retention and bloat.

As you can see, by the time the bloat happens, the ester is long since out of the picture. I don't see how it would make a difference unless the cypionate ester has its own mechanism for causing water retention separate to this one.

As I say, my understanding is pretty basic, so if that's wrong, feel free to correct me.

[snoopy]

Cool it, guys. Name-calling helps no-one. :naughty:

it is almost identical to Enanthate but due to the longer ester it has some different effects.

Snoopy, I have two problems with that theory...

1) According to a quick Google search, the respective half lives are as follows:

Testosterone Cypionate 12 days

Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days

That doesn't seem too different to me?

2) Isn't the bloating caused by estrogen? Here's my rudimentary understanding of the process... Esterified testosterone is injected, ester falls off leaving testosterone free to do its thing. Some of that testosterone then aromatises to estrogen, which causes increased water retention and bloat.

As you can see, by the time the bloat happens, the ester is long since out of the picture. I don't see how it would make a difference unless the cypionate ester has its own mechanism for causing water retention separate to this one.

As I say, my understanding is pretty basic, so if that's wrong, feel free to correct me.

Instead of reading start injecting :wink:

You can read all that stuff on esters and half-lives and read all the debates but at the end of the day it's all down to personal experience.

Your probaly correct as far as text books go, but the only way to really compare the two is to use each one and note the effects.

Too much reading on the subject will cause you to lose your ability to make your own decisions on the subject.

[tomsammce]

mate stop talking shit! Ffs!

[snoopy]

mate stop talking shit! Ffs!

Okay, lets do a summary and have blood test levels done twice a day and pull out graphs and dictate our blood levels and compare half lives...

Or... Lets take a certain compound of test, eat a shit load and train heaps.

I'll take the latter, I cant be that stupid as I am one of the few who includes HCG to preserve my production of Spermatoza (Semen).

Not 'Nolva' or 'Adex' when my nipples get a tad itchy, 'oh no, I'm feeling slighty strange.. I know, 30mg's Nolva a day!!!' ... Fucks sake lads, last time I checked PCT ment Post Cycle Therapy

[tomsammce]

Lol i doubt u have real hcg...

Anyway test cyp and test e are so similar they are pretty much the same.

Ppl who are prescribed test e in one part of the world for a health condition another person with the same condition in another part of the world will be prescribed test cyp.

They are considered the same and work the same way.

[snoopy]

Lol i doubt u have real hcg...

Anyway test cyp and test e are so similar they are pretty much the same.

Ppl who are prescribed test e in one part of the world for a health condition another person with the same condition in another part of the world will be prescribed test cyp.

They are considered the same and work the same way.

Really on the HCG? My LH profile did increase, is this not an indication of proper HCG?

[Wookie]

Thanks for the entertainment boys.

[musclenz]

The main difference is enanthate has a 7-carbon ester chain while cypionate has an 8-carbon ester chain. The more carbons the ester group has, the more soluble in oil and the less soluble in water it becomes. As a result, cypionate has a slightly slower release and longer active life so its possible that users will see less water retention although I think it gets more down to preference. The enanthate ester, being smaller, holds slightly more testosterone.

[Daz69]

Cool it, guys. Name-calling helps no-one. :naughty:

it is almost identical to Enanthate but due to the longer ester it has some different effects.

Snoopy, I have two problems with that theory...

1) According to a quick Google search, the respective half lives are as follows:

Testosterone Cypionate 12 days

Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days

That doesn't seem too different to me?

2) Isn't the bloating caused by estrogen? Here's my rudimentary understanding of the process... Esterified testosterone is injected, ester falls off leaving testosterone free to do its thing. Some of that testosterone then aromatises to estrogen, which causes increased water retention and bloat.

As you can see, by the time the bloat happens, the ester is long since out of the picture. I don't see how it would make a difference unless the cypionate ester has its own mechanism for causing water retention separate to this one.

As I say, my understanding is pretty basic, so if that's wrong, feel free to correct me.

Your basically correct Pseudo, apart from the half lives which are incorrect due to a f*ck up by Bill Roberts on his calculation of carbon atoms many years ago:

Testosterone Cypionate 6 days

Testosterone Enanthate 5.25 day

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2333732)

This is what I have:

An ester is a molecule of varying lengths of carbon atoms based on its prefix...deca(10), undeca(11-not sure...don't have a text in front of me),prop(3), etc. This carbon skeleton is "esterfied" or attached to the steroid molecule. In order for the steroid molecule to be active i.e. recognized by the receptor, it must be devoid of the ester. The ester is cleaved by metabolic processes in a timed released basis relative to the length of the carbon chain. Therefore, the longer the ester, the longer the period of distributed release of the molecule.

So the ester is long gone before the testosterone molecules hits receptors...

And that is all you are left with Testosterone, all testosterone is the same its just the esters which release the Testosterone into the blood stream at different rates, when the ester is gone there is no difference in the testosterone just the amount entering the blood may be higher or lower....

But like Snoopy says who needs research, just inject it and see.....

Well lets see what it did for Snoopy:

This is who is giving advice in the steroid forum Gentlemen....!!!!

[Wookie]

Quality selection of mixers on the left there. I hear Pepsi goes better with rum instead of the Coke though. Lift is for the vodka I suspect. Probably not ideal conditions to show vascularity though, so don't be too hard on him, Dazza.

[snoopy]

Cool it, guys. Name-calling helps no-one. :naughty:

it is almost identical to Enanthate but due to the longer ester it has some different effects.

Snoopy, I have two problems with that theory...

1) According to a quick Google search, the respective half lives are as follows:

Testosterone Cypionate 12 days

Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days

That doesn't seem too different to me?

2) Isn't the bloating caused by estrogen? Here's my rudimentary understanding of the process... Esterified testosterone is injected, ester falls off leaving testosterone free to do its thing. Some of that testosterone then aromatises to estrogen, which causes increased water retention and bloat.

As you can see, by the time the bloat happens, the ester is long since out of the picture. I don't see how it would make a difference unless the cypionate ester has its own mechanism for causing water retention separate to this one.

As I say, my understanding is pretty basic, so if that's wrong, feel free to correct me.

Your basically correct Pseudo, apart from the half lives which are incorrect due to a f*ck up by Bill Roberts on his calculation of carbon atoms many years ago:

Testosterone Cypionate 6 days

Testosterone Enanthate 5.25 day

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2333732)

This is what I have:

An ester is a molecule of varying lengths of carbon atoms based on its prefix...deca(10), undeca(11-not sure...don't have a text in front of me),prop(3), etc. This carbon skeleton is "esterfied" or attached to the steroid molecule. In order for the steroid molecule to be active i.e. recognized by the receptor, it must be devoid of the ester. The ester is cleaved by metabolic processes in a timed released basis relative to the length of the carbon chain. Therefore, the longer the ester, the longer the period of distributed release of the molecule.

So the ester is long gone before the testosterone molecules hits receptors...

But like Snoopy says who needs research, just inject it and see.....

Well lets see what it did for Snoopy:

This is who is giving advice in the steroid forum Gentlemen....!!!!

Cant wait to post my new picks Daz, you'll be begging me for my secrets, paying 2k for a handful of my pubes and buying my used gym shorts.

Just you wait gay boy, soon you'll be taking that poster off your wall of Justin Bieber and putting me up.

BTW, you never had Test flu it was Bieber Fever

[Chemo]

Cant wait for this one to enter the playground.

what sort of dIfference in aromatisation between enanth and prop?

[Daz69]

Cant wait for this one to enter the playground.

what sort of dIfference in aromatisation between enanth and prop?

Don't think there has been any studys to prove one way or another... But from what I've picked up, there is the possibility that Propionate releasing from its ester at a quicker rate may cause more of a hormonal fluctuation than Enanthate... but obviously dose dependant...

[Daz69]

Cool it, guys. Name-calling helps no-one. :naughty:

Instead of reading start injecting :wink:

Pseudo' this must be one of the most idiotic and dangerous pieces of advice ever given on this forum.... There is a wealth of information on steroids here and on various research sites like Pub-Med, Google Scholar etc.... There are people on here who have many decades of experience using and researching these compounds and are happy to give advice to those asking.... Myself included...

If you don't know what you are doing, or follow wrong advice very serious issues can and will follow.... When members consistently give bad advice, might you consider adding either a warning to the post, or deleting it completely...

Whether you wish to go further with those particular members is your decision...

When those members proudly post up pictures clearly showing there methodology is not working for them, they might rightly expect ridicule and certainly cannot expect to be taken seriously..... If all they can come back with is more bad advice and childish personal insults they are physically incapable of backing up, maybe they have no right to be on here....

My 2c....

[Pseudonym]

Instead of reading start injecting

Pseudo' this must be one of the most idiotic and dangerous pieces of advice ever given on this forum....

I agree. But I'm reluctant to start censoring comments on the basis of idiocy. It's much better to have other members explain why a comment is wrong - as you've just done, thank you! I think anyone reading this topic will quickly realise how valuable Snoopy's suggestion isn't.

For what it's worth, Snoopy has just been suspended for his comments in another thread. When he returns from that, it will be his last chance.

[Collins]

[narcosis73]

[attachment=1]image.jpg[/attachment]

looking mean and lean Collins, shame the tats give away your identity :pfft: .

[dannyjay]

i'll challenge u to a pro wrestling match collins

for the nzbb title belt

doubt you'll be able to pin me

i'll throw you into the corner and then give you a pumphandle slam then climb to the top rope for my signature move, the planet smasher (twisting 630 moonsault press)

then finish you off with my finisher, the space explosion (double underhook sitdown piledriver) for the 1 2 3

[Pseudonym]

Great photos, Collins! Just a little light on the details.

- Is this the After photos once you'd finished your second cycle?

- What did the Before look like?

- What are/were your stats?

- What did you end up taking? How did you find it?

- What was your diet like?

That'll do for starters. :wink:

[Collins]

Thanks! Haha yea tats are a bit of a give away. Yea end of second cycle in november, was just trying to see how lean I could stay. Before was a bit fatter and smoother. Happy with results though. Ended up doing 500mg test E per week/300mg boldenone per week for 15 weeks. Got good pumps from boldenone, no sides from anything. Could have gained more obviously by eating more. Was only about 69kgs in those photos :oops: . Diet was pretty clean, e.g brown rice, chicken, bit of lean red meat, lotsa beans and asparagus, 5-6 meals a day. PCT was 20mg nolva a day and 12.5mg a day of aromasin for 4 weeks. Was a really smooth pct compared to my first cycle coming off just using nolva. Finished the boldenone two weeks short of the test as well. Just trying to build some mass and strength now..got a long way to go! P.s I only wrestle chicks dannyjay!