new and need q's answered

[ohjoshua]

Hi everyone.

im new to this site and have been reading other training logs and work out discussions.

its awesome.

i have some serious questions about training i would love a pro to answer.

first question.

I really like that sore feeling (doms) u get a day or so after the lift.

if u dont get the sore feeling for a patictular lift does that mean no gains were made during that training session??

[Cammo]

Welcome mate

first question.

I really like that sore feeling (doms) u get a day or so after the lift.

if u dont get the sore feeling for a patictular lift does that mean no gains were made during that training session??

I'm no pro, but I know a thing or two :wink:

You probably won't get DOMS after every workout but that does not mean that you aren't making gains from it.

I normally get DOMS when I've switched up my routine or come back from a break, I don't know too many people that get them with every workout.

As long as you keep pushing yourself & increasing the intensity as you become stronger, you will gain (providing you haven't reached your genetic potential, but this will take many years).

Make sure you eat right & rest properly too.

[63]

great answer

[ohjoshua]

Welcome mate

"I normally get DOMS when I've switched up my routine or come back from a break, I don't know too many people that get them with every workout."

Cammo.

does this not mean that u make your biggest gains when u switched up your rountine or had a break?

i have been training for 4 months now.

i train at extremely high intensity!

and i get DOMS every time i do a 'proper' work out.... i use it as an indicator as to how success ful my work out was. and also as an indicator as when i can train that body part again. when the DOMS fade away i go in and train that part again.

i am weak, but have made large increases in strength and size in the 4 months i have been training.

?? ? ? ??? so do most body buildiers/power lifts not get DOMS most times they train???

am i the best in the world?(joke)

[ohjoshua]

oh and ive started entering a training journal on another form, would be cool to receive feed back.

[Cammo]

As for making the most gains etc, I normally switch my routine up when I either get bored, plateau or when I notice I stop gaining.

It's good to switch it up now & then - it keeps the muscles guessing - they can get used to a routine and stop making progress if you're not careful.

You can also still train a bodypart even when you still have DOMS but it's always good to make sure you get good rest in between.

Everyone's different - what works for me may not necessarily work for you, that's the problem with a lot of forums out there - "IF YOU DON'T DO IT MY WAY, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!" :pfft:

If it's working for you, keep it up I say!

[ohjoshua]

Training with DOMS... wow now thats intense

i think i might have a taste of it tomorrow...

i did nuts squats friday and because of my dumb training partner (he has exams) i have to do squats and deadlifts tomorrow. My legs are still sore from friday.

[Cammo]

Training with DOMS... wow now thats intense

i think i might have a taste of it tomorrow...

i did nuts squats friday and because of my dumb training partner (he has exams) i have to do squats and deadlifts tomorrow. My legs are still sore from friday.

Squats & deads on the same day????

That's not a good idea in my opinion - both exercises take alot out of the tank.

I don't even do them on consecutive days!

[poos_n_wees]

Adding weight to the bar will be a far more important factor than whether or not you are sore from your workout. I could do 30 reps of leg extensions and be sore.... or a heavy set of 5-6 reps of front squats and not necessarily be sore. BUT I guarantee you that those front squats will do way more for your legs than the leg extensions ever will.

IMO soreness isn't a good indication of an effective workout OR muscle growth.

[ohjoshua]

Squats & deads on the same day????

That's not a good idea in my opinion - both exercises take alot out of the tank.

I don't even do them on consecutive days!

[ohjoshua]

Adding weight to the bar will be a far more important factor than whether or not you are sore from your workout. I could do 30 reps of leg extensions and be sore.... or a heavy set of 5-6 reps of front squats and not necessarily be sore. BUT I guarantee you that those front squats will do way more for your legs than the leg extensions ever will.

IMO soreness isn't a good indication of an effective workout OR muscle growth.

Nice point,

how about i do the 5-6 heay squats followed by the 30 leg extensions?

my last leg day i did 6 sets*4-12 reps squats followed by 2 sets of 20 rep leg extensions.

but 30 rep leg extension and 5-6 rep squats, now thats an idea!

[Pseudonym]

Heya man, and welcome. Sounds like you're getting plenty of good advice already... That's what we're all about!

does this not mean that u make your biggest gains when u switched up your rountine or had a break?

Great question. And essentially, the answer is "Yes". If you don't switch your routine periodically, or don't have enough recovery, then your gains will certainly slow. That doesn't mean you have to change your routine weekly, or feel DOMS after every workout though - the trick is finding the balance. A week off, and/or a changed routine every 4-8 weeks is often a good approach.

[ohjoshua]

Great question. And essentially, the answer is "Yes". If you don't switch your routine periodically, or don't have enough recovery, then your gains will certainly slow. That doesn't mean you have to change your routine weekly, or feel DOMS after every workout though - the trick is finding the balance. A week off, and/or a changed routine every 4-8 weeks is often a good approach.

[geneticgod]

Adding weight to the bar will be a far more important factor than whether or not you are sore from your workout. I could do 30 reps of leg extensions and be sore.... or a heavy set of 5-6 reps of front squats and not necessarily be sore. BUT I guarantee you that those front squats will do way more for your legs than the leg extensions ever will.

IMO soreness isn't a good indication of an effective workout OR muscle growth.

poos makes a good point here man, doing lots of sets will just tone your muscle, but doing 6-10 reps with heavy weight so that you are just reaching a number inside that range will give you the best growth by far, even if your not hurting the next day.

BUT

CREATED BY GOD, BUILT BY PAIN, aye

[ohjoshua]

Adding weight to the bar will be a far more important factor than whether or not you are sore from your workout. I could do 30 reps of leg extensions and be sore.... or a heavy set of 5-6 reps of front squats and not necessarily be sore. BUT I guarantee you that those front squats will do way more for your legs than the leg extensions ever will.

IMO soreness isn't a good indication of an effective workout OR muscle growth.

poos makes a good point here man, doing lots of sets will just tone your muscle, but doing 6-10 reps with heavy weight so that you are just reaching a number inside that range will give you the best growth by far, even if your not hurting the next day.

BUT

CREATED BY GOD, BUILT BY PAIN, aye

What??? i dont do high reps. ..

I do between 4-10 reps

If i get sore when i train hard (heavyer then usual).

This tears my muscle filiments and micro filiments.

which in turn stimulates growth of more micro filments.

and in turn causes you make 'gains'

[Cammo]

Just because sometimes we don't get DOMS doesn't mean muscle filiments haven't been torn, it just means we aren't getting pain with it.

[ohjoshua]

Just because sometimes we don't get DOMS doesn't mean muscle filiments haven't been torn, it just means we aren't getting pain with it.

Sorry I wasnt meaning to insult you. Reading through my post's it looks that way.

I am just interested.

I know muscle growth can be acheived without DOMS.

-example: A person puts on 30kg of fat weight over 3 years. Through out this time the muscle mass and strengh in their legs increases. But throught out the time no DOMS is experienced (or very rearly).

So why some do peoples muscle filiments cause pain when torn and others very little?

[poos_n_wees]

Just because sometimes we don't get DOMS doesn't mean muscle filiments haven't been torn, it just means we aren't getting pain with it.

Sorry I wasnt meaning to insult you. Reading through my post's it looks that way.

I am just interested.

I know muscle growth can be acheived without DOMS.

-example: A person puts on 30kg of fat weight over 3 years. Through out this time the muscle mass and strengh in their legs increases. But throught out the time no DOMS is experienced (or very rearly).

So why some do peoples muscle filiments cause pain when torn and others very little?

Research shows that DOMS appears to be more related to inflammation of connective tissue, not muscle. Ummm... someone correct me if I'm wrong - but muscle fibres don't have pain receptors, so the pain you're feeling has nothing to do with tears in the muscle filaments or its cell membranes.

[ohjoshua]

Just because sometimes we don't get DOMS doesn't mean muscle filiments haven't been torn, it just means we aren't getting pain with it.

Sorry I wasnt meaning to insult you. Reading through my post's it looks that way.

I am just interested.

I know muscle growth can be acheived without DOMS.

-example: A person puts on 30kg of fat weight over 3 years. Through out this time the muscle mass and strengh in their legs increases. But throught out the time no DOMS is experienced (or very rearly).

So why some do peoples muscle filiments cause pain when torn and others very little?

Research shows that DOMS appears to be more related to inflammation of connective tissue, not muscle. Ummm... someone correct me if I'm wrong - but muscle fibres don't have pain receptors, so the pain you're feeling has nothing to do with tears in the muscle filaments or its cell membranes.

nice , thats the sort of talk i like to hear. logical and expanatory. thanks poos_wees.

[ohjoshua]

Oh and in my defence...

I am willing to bet there is a direct postive corolation between the amount of muslce damage and connective tissue damage caused during a workout.

If that is true then DOMS still isnt that bad of an indicator to amount of muscle growth.

[ExpensiveUrine]

Oh and in my defence...

I am willing to bet there is a direct postive corolation between the amount of muslce damage and connective tissue damage caused during a workout.

If that is true then DOMS still isnt that bad of an indicator to amount of muscle growth.

How did you come to this conclusion?

Questions:

Do you know what connective tissue is?

If I train at higher frequency, not get DOMS, and still grow. Why?

Just to help you out, I'm willing to punch you in the stomach after each set of crunches just so you get more DOMS the next day. Think of the abdominal hypertrophy you'll be getting.

[ohjoshua]

Just to help you out, I'm willing to punch you in the stomach after each set of crunches just so you get more DOMS the next day. Think of the abdominal hypertrophy you'll be getting.

I dont do crunches... abbs without a crunch in the bunch.

But yeah that sort of training ( getting punched during sets) is awesome for abbs.

I do boxing and if im doing flys, or chin ups etc, fast light punches during the movements drive your abbs crazy.

[2guns]

If that is true then DOMS still isnt that bad of an indicator to amount of muscle growth.

doms isnt really an indication of muscle growth imo.

i say this because if your eating is shit, your gonna be alot sorer and and not grow as much as someone who eats well pwo (all the time for tht matter) and trains harder. they will be less sore and grow more.

same goes for chemically enhanced people

[Paul]

But yeah that sort of training ( getting punched during sets) is awesome for abbs.

Mate Im with EU if u need some help with this

[Cammo]

But yeah that sort of training ( getting punched during sets) is awesome for abbs.

Mate Im with EU if u need some help with this

I'll buy a ticket! :pfft: