Pseudonym Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Ama, I've only seen anecdotal reports from people taking this amount of BCAAs (they called it mega-dosing - an indication that this was an unusually high amount to take, perhaps?). These people did say they thought it did help a bit with increased vascularity and maintenance of weight and full muscles whilst cutting.As I say, these are only anecdotal reports, and fairly limited ones at that. Do you have any studies you can point us to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oros Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 "BCAA's are only amino acids ie. bits of protein"Yeh, so whats your point???!!!Every bit of protein counts, I'm sure the top guys in the INBA did'nt get there on veggan burgers!!!!!Sure BCAA's are generally part and parcel of most protein powders (minimal amounts at best), but whats wrong with adding more to the daily intake (within reason of course)Besides, if I don't spend it ($$$$), my wife wants it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantomb Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 "BCAA's are only amino acids ie. bits of protein"Yeh, so whats your point???!!!Every bit of protein counts, I'm sure the top guys in the INBA did'nt get there on veggan burgers!!!!!Sure BCAA's are generally part and parcel of most protein powders (minimal amounts at best), but whats wrong with adding more to the daily intake (within reason of course)Besides, if I don't spend it ($$$$), my wife wants it!Well if you read my post properly you'd realise that for your money you get TWICE AS MUCH from a protein powder.That's my point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deegee Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 I tried these sometime ago and dont think i got anything extra from them, but I have always kept my protein levels high.Like many supplements though, they seem to work better for some than others. If it works for you then iut is not a waste of money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oros Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 I'm not too sure which protein powders you are refering to, but of all the ones I've tried, and also read the "ingredient" list on, non will give you anywhere near the dosage that is "regarded" as within the recommended 10g's total BCAA's per day.I may stand corrected on this, but, levels of leucine, isoleucine & valine usually total less than 1g per serve (as listed on the stickie), in most of the protein powders I've seen.Also keep in mind that protein powders manufactured in the US, only need to be accurate to within 65% of what they list on their stickie, vs NZ & Aussie products which have to be within 85%.So regardless of which brand of protein powder you prefer, you're probably getting far less BCAA's (and other "ingredients") from your daily servings of protein powder anyway - amounts that are barely, if at all beneficial to anyone whose main desire is to pack on dense, lean, muscle mass, without loosing, but still gaining training strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantomb Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 I'm not too sure which protein powders you are refering to, but of all the ones I've tried, and also read the "ingredient" list on, non will give you anywhere near the dosage that is "regarded" as within the recommended 10g's total BCAA's per day.I may stand corrected on this, but, levels of leucine, isoleucine & valine usually total less than 1g per serve (as listed on the stickie), in most of the protein powders I've seen.7.8g/serve - Horleys ICE Whey6.6g/serve - Horleys Awesome Whey5.5g/serve - Balance 100% Whey Protein5.4g/serve - Nutralife Maximum Protein5.2g/serve - Musashi WPCAlso keep in mind that protein powders manufactured in the US, only need to be accurate to within 65% of what they list on their stickie, vs NZ & Aussie products which have to be within 85%.All of the above are manufactured in NZ and Australia. So regardless of which brand of protein powder you prefer, you're probably getting far less BCAA's (and other "ingredients") from your daily servings of protein powder anyway - amounts that are barely, if at all beneficial to anyone whose main desire is to pack on dense, lean, muscle mass, without loosing, but still gaining training strength.Uh-huh. The above brands make up a very large chunk of the widely available protein in NZ. What protein are you using?Or we could leave the brand arguement alone and go on fact. BCAA's make up 20-25% of quality protein ie. eggs, meat, whey etc.Therefore if you want to get your "recommended daily dose" of 10g of BCAA's then you need to eat a minimum of 50g of quality protein. Yet it would seem that most of us here are ingesting at least 150g of protein per day yielding a whopping 30-40g of BCAA's. In other words, why waste your money on extra BCAA's when you're getting it cheaper from normal protein? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oros Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Actually I do stand corrected... :oops: :nod: :clap: According to the stickie on Balance Ion Exchange Whey - flavoured leucine - 3.0gisoleucine - 1.8gvaline - 1.5gtotal - 6.3g's/serveBalance Ion Exchange Whey - unflavouredleucine - 3.41gisoleucine - 1.46gvaline - 1.41gtotal - 6.28g's/serveMeans I have 31.42g's of BCAA's from protein powder, plus a further 4.4g's from the Dymatize tabs.........my God man, I'm overdosing........expecting to grow an extra hand out the back of my head any moment now :doh: I :notworthy: phantom, when I get home tonight I'll ask my wife to give me a stern talking to :smackbottom: All jokes aside, thats $75.00 savings/2 months that phantom has opened my eyes too.........now, what else can I buy instead of extra BCAA's????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantomb Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 LMAO - nice icons.You listen to your wife???Spend the $75 on earplugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oros Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Listern to my wife!.........Hell no!.........Buy ear plugs :think: ???I think I just need to get the memory checked, I remember reading the protein powder stickie.......once.........a long time ago.......bit like reading the instructions on a "some-assembly-required" item of furniture really. :shock: Listering to the wife can only lead to....asking for directions when lost, ......putting the toilet seat down........reading the calender and actually KNOWING when her birthday & our wedding anniversary is,............could even lead to me actually KNOWING where the hell I put my wallet, or more importantly......the TV remote!No. I just need to do my homework FIRST, before posting a reply or opinion based on barely remembered or distorted info!!! :naughty: :naughty: Getting things wrong can only lead to.... :gunfire: Anyway.......joined up to the forum to learn more,........consider me to be more "learnt" on the topic of BCAA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Great discussion guys! Comparing the numbers is fascinating. I wonder how the wholesale whey from Fonterra/Davis Trading compares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varven Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 If we were to use no supplements at all and instead rely on natural foods, I wonder how much we could save up in about 6 months.... Im sure enough for a good couple of cycles of the magic stuff ?Hmm Now I wonder how much retainable gains from the good stuff will compare against the gains from legal supplements... purely hypothesizing folks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammo Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I'm going to have to say Marcus (the thread starter) is getting ripped off spending $120 on 300g of BCAA powder.I get my powder (Scivation Xtend) through bb.com for $110 (kiwi dollars & including shipping) & I get a 1035g tub.The tubs got 90 servings, each serving comprised of :leucine - 3.5g isoleucine - 1.75g valine - 1.75g glutamine - 2.5gcitrulline malate - 1gI normally take mine first thing in the morning, 30 mins before cardio.It helps prevent the cardio turning catabolic & I've noticed an increase in stamina (I also take a couple of Hydroxycut Hardcore caps so that could be aiding in the stamina).I also take some with my PWO shake, even though the powder I'm using (Optimum Nutrition 100% Gold Standard) contains around 4g of BCAA's per serving, it's far from adequate.Leucine is great at helping speed up post-exercise muscle protein synthesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted October 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Yes I found a cheaper source since the date of that post. I've been buying through trueprotein. Heaps cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammo Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Yes I found a cheaper source since the date of that post. I've been buying through trueprotein. Heaps cheaper.Nice to hear! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclearmor Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Whey powder has all the BCAAs you need , enough said! One 30g scoop of EAS 100% Whey delivers 5.6g of BCAAs (1.4g Valine, 1.5g Isoleucine, 2.6g Leucine). PLus of course you are receiving 23g of highly digestable Whey protein. If you were concerned about calories versus muscle wastage, simply take a couple of teaspoons of 100% Whey mixed in water before your workout to prevent a catabolic state. Dont waste your money on another BCAA container! EAS Dont even bother making one anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammo Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 5.6g of BCAAs is not nearly enough.Here's a little study I found:From MEDLINE (via Ovid). 'Parenteral administration of different amounts of branch-chain amino acids in septic patients: Clinical and metabolic aspects' - Garcia-de-Lorenzo, Abelardo MD, PhD; Ortiz-Leyba, Carlos MD, PhD; Planas, Merce MD, PhD; Montejo, Juan C. MD; Nunez, Rafael MD; Ordonez, Francisco J. MD; Aragon, Cesar MD; Jimenez, Francisco J. MD, PhD.(a study on septic patients)Quote:Objective: To study the effects of a total parenteral nutrition solution changing branch-chain amino acid concentrations and/or nitrogen supply on protein metabolism, length of stay, and mortality rate; and to evaluate the unique metabolic status of sepsis that leads to a search for specific total parenteral nutrition formulas.Materials and Method:Each group was infused continuously through a central vein with an isocaloric (24 nonprotein calories/kg/day) parenteral nutrition during 11 days. Nonprotein calories were given as 60% glucose (3.4 g/kg/day) and 40% fat emulsion (1 g/kg/day) (Intralipid[R] 20%, Pharmacia and Upjohn, Madrid, Spain). The patients in groups A and B received a total amino acid load of 1.5 g amino acids/kg/day with a calories/nitrogen ratio of 100:1; and the patients in group C received 1.1 g amino acids/kg/day with a calories/nitrogen ratio of 140:1. Group A received an amino acid solution with 23% branch-chain amino acids (FreAmine[R] 10%, Pharmacia and Upjohn), and groups B and C received a solution with 45% branch-chain amino acids (FreAmine 6.9% high branched chain, Pharmacia and Upjohn). Group A received a branch-chain amino acids load of 0.345 g/kg/day; group B received a branch-chain amino acids load of 0.675 g/kg/day, and group C received a branch-chain amino acids load of 0.5 g/kg/day (Table 1). In summary, groups A and B represent standard vs. branch-chain amino acids-supplemented parenteral nutrition, and group C was treated with less nitrogen intake and a higher calories/nitrogen ratio than groups A and B, but a higher branch-chain amino acids load than the standard group (23% branch-chain amino acids). Vitamins, minerals, and trace elements were given in sufficient amounts each day.The use of enriched branch-chain amino acid formulations in sepsis has several theoretical advantages. Experimentally, the branch-chain amino acids have been shown to decrease protein degradation and to stimulate protein synthesis in liver and muscle [17-20]. In addition, they may be oxidized peripherally to serve as a fuel source and may be substrates for neoglucogenesis [21-23]. The branch-chain amino acids represent a unique source of energy in that the oxidation of the first carbon fragment yields high-energy phosphate without the intervention of glucose. This finding is of particular importance when other energy-producing mechanisms that use glucose are less functional, as in sepsis [22,24-29].Branch-chain amino acids-rich parenteral nutrition has been shown to correct the plasma amino acid imbalance that exists in sepsis and may be used to predict the severity and outcome of sepsis [49-53]. As expected, the changes of plasma amino acid profiles in our patients indicated that septic patients who received the high branch-chain amino acid solutions showed significantly higher plasma concentrations of valine, leucine, and isoleucine. The increased concentrations of these amino acids in our study were correlated with the branch-chain amino acids load administered. Group B, which received a higher amount of branch-chain amino acids (0.67 g/kg/day), increased plasma values of leucine, isoleucine, and valine above the normal reference limits. This result may reflect that for our patients, the branch-chain amino acids load of 0.5 g/kg/day (the dose administered to group C) was better than 0.67 g/kg/day. Jimenez et al. [34,52] observed that in septic patients, plasma concentrations of leucine and valine reached high concentrations after 15 days when solutions with high branch-chain amino acids concentration (45%) were used, suggesting that the need for branch-chain amino acids diminishes when the hypercatabolic state disappears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Sorry Cammo. I've read that through a couple of times now, and I still don't understand the connection you're trying to make. Can you summarise it for us - and make your point in really simple words that even dumb bodybuilders can understand! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Interesting study, fortunately I don't know too many BB's that have sepsis. BCAA's are important and definately can be of benefit to hard trainers, however the use of a decent whey is one of the most cost effective means of getting BCAA's - 5.6g per serve is pretty decent if your having 4 or 5 serves a day.If you're a fan of Leucine you should give HMB a go - it's a metabolite of Leucine and shown to decrease protein breakdown. Combining it with Leucine, which stimulates protein synthesis, is supposed to make quite an effective combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammo Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 My original argument, & the reason I take my BCAA's is to negate catabolism when doing cardio first thing in the morning & to have a surplus post workout. I would much rather take a serving of my BCAA powder in the morning than down a protein shake before cardio.I also believe that a persons diet should consist mainly of "real food" and protein shakes sould be substitute only when real food is inconvenient or PWO. It's because of this that I like to suppliment my BCAAs - they comprise of about 35% of our muscles so I like to have a surplus. :wink: I may just agree to disagree at this point. :pfft: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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