Testosterone. Im going back wards? What gives?

[bulking4ever]

So basically I'm right... Next time you cut-n-paste an article in its entirety please credit your source...

http://thinksteroids.com/articles/maste ... -estrogen/

The thing is this isnt a cut-n-paste, it took me 2 hours to dig into my immense knowledge and type all of it :pfft: (NOT srs)

The site I got this info from did not have an author name or anything like that, i looked for it, definetely agree that the guy who took the time to elaboreate this deserves credit.

What I should have done is at least given the link to the page, but too late now, will niot google it and go trhough all those sitres again :pfft: .

[mrgeeky]

I didn't think Masteron worked as an aromatise inhibitor..? I thought Masteron prevents estrogen related sides by raising base level Testosterone by being so androgenic in its nature.

''To understand why Masteron can be used as an anti-estrogen, first we need to know that it’s derived from DHT. Why is this important?

This is important because DHT directly inhibits estrogenic activity on tissues. It is possible that it does this, possibly by acting as a competitive antagonist to the estrogen receptor or by decreasing estrogen receptor binding. Either way, it has multiple hypothesized mechanisms of action in some tissues. It has also been hypothesized that DHT actually suppresses estrogen’s effects not by inhibition of synthesis of estrogen receptor, but by (get ready…big words coming up) decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at some point after the actual estrogen receptor binding has occurred. This means, in much simpler terms, that the estrogen gets to the receptor, but just doesn’t do its job (1). This means you can take steroids that convert to estrogen (called aromatizable steroids) and not worry about that estrogen possibly making you retain water, gain fat, or watch "Desperate Housewives." Also, this could mean that the antiestrogenic effect of DHT is mediated by an androgen receptor mediated mechanism.

In fact, DHT has been shown to prevent the estrogen-dependent augmentation of the progesterone receptor in human breast cancer cells. And, not to be redundant, but it’s important to remember that virtually all of the anti-estrogens we use to control gyno and water retention are also used to treat breast cancer. So, now we know have observed that androgens are capable of inhibiting both the estrogenic induction and the ongoing stimulation of PRc synthesis, but have no apparent effect upon basal concentrations of this receptor. Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) demonstrates a very high degree of inhibition of estrogen in human breast cancer cells. (2). But it’s not just DHT that does this; its metabolites have been shown to inhibit aromatization itself; DHT, androsterone, and 5alpha-androstandione are all potent inhibitors of the formation of estrone from androstenedione. In fact, it's so potent at reducing estrogen that transdermal DHT gel applied to the affected area has been used to treat gynocomastia (3). DHT is such a potent anti-estrogen that it been even been used to increase height in children with short stature, and since it’s been determined that this increase is not due to GH-mediated effects, it was strongly suggested that DHT’s anti-estrogenic effects are the mechanism by which it can increase height (4) Of course, I suspect I don’t need to tell you that DHT is structurally incapable or converting to estrogen…

So all of this tells us that DHT will certainly have beneficial effects on keeping our estrogen in check, but what about Masteron? Can it be used as effectively? Well, let’s take a look at what Masteron actually is, relative to DHT. But before we can do that, I think a quick explanation of DHT is in order first. Don’t worry; I’ll make it as brief and painless as possible.

DHT is actually the result of testosterone interacting with the 5alpha-reductase (5a-R) enzyme. This enzyme is present in the scalp, prostate, external genitalia, and other places. As far as I can see, it apparently exists for the sole purpose of converting a steroid with a double bond between carbon 4 and carbon 5 to one with a single bond between them, and subsequently adding a hydrogen atom to each carbon. This process is called (of course) 5alpha-reduction.

dehydrotestosterone

So now we know how testosterone becomes Dihydrotestosterone. And everything would be great if this is the only thing that happened to our good old friend testosterone, because as you may already know, DHT is a far more potent androgen than testosterone. But, unfortunately, this is not the end of the story, because DHT is largely deactivated by the enzyme 3-alpha Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase (3bHSD), which is mainly present in skeletal muscle.

For our purposes here, we’re only going to be concerned with one particular action of this enzyme. It can either converts a steroid with a keto group on position 3 of the steroid to one with a hydroxy group in that position, thus converting DHT is to androstanediol. This conversion is part of reason DHT alone has not proven to be a very effective muscle builder, as androstanediol is not going to be very anabolic at all. If you look off to the left of the following molecular diagram, and compare it to the one above for DHT, you’ll notice that the "O" (oxygen) has been replaced with an "HO" (hydrogen + oxygen) at the third position:

Androstanediol

3bHSD is present all over the body (as is 5a-R, for the most part), but is found in especially high concentrations in the scalp and prostate, and it’s even possible that its actions on DHT will exacerbate male pattern baldness in the former tissue. Also, it’s worth noting that DHT is the androgen responsible for development of external genitalia. This is most likely the reason that women experience a temporary clitoral hypertrophy when they use the often recommended steroids (Primobolan, Anavar, Winstrol, etc…) in excessive doses.

In an interesting aside, I find it really interesting that the most typical steroids recommended are the most likely to cause clitoral enlargement and other possible androgenic effects. But on the bright side, in my experience with female athletes, that first effect is most welcome...actually, topical DHT can even be used to treat Microphalia (extremely tiny genitalia) in males (5). This last fact, if you’ve ever wondered, is the type of information discussed behind closed doors by of owners and staff of "private/invite-only" anabolic steroid boards and forums…for obvious reasons…

Ok, so now you know what DHT is, where it comes from, what it can do, and why it’s not a particularly potent anabolic when used alone. Here’s what Masteron is, relative to its parent compound, DHT. Masteron is an injectable steroid that is simply the DHT molecule which has been altered to be 2alpha-Methyl-DHT…

Masteron, aka Drostanolone Propionate

This 2-alpha-methyl alteration makes it much more potent anabolic, although it’s still only about 60% as anabolic as testosterone and a quarter as androgenic. I’m going to speculate that these ratings make it not the most potent anabolic in the world, but its anti estrogenic effects plus its ability to increase aggression make it a very nice pre-contest addition. This is also where we get the absurd rumor that Masteron won’t do anything for you unless you’re already at a very low body-fat percentage. This is not true at all. No matter what body-fat percentage you’re at going to get a nice anti-estrogenic effect from Masteron, as well as some nice aggression and strength in the gym - the former and latter are both known as "non-genomic" effects, and are a result of the strong Central Nervous System stimulatory effects of Masteron, which is very common with DHT derived steroids. Basically, if you’re fat, and you take something that increases aggression and has anti-estrogenic effects (Halotestin and Arimidex, lets say), you wouldn’t expect to get huge and ripped. It’s the same thing with Masteron. Now, what if you add in Arimidex and Halotestin to a pre-contest cycle, you’ll get harder and look better. That’s exactly what’ll happen if you add Masteron into a Pre-contest cycle. It’s not that you have to be at some random body-fat percentage to get results from it, but you’ll need to be at that lower body-fat percentage to "see" those results. Again, if you’re fat and take Halo and Arimidex, you aren’t going to look much better…think of Masteron in similar terms, but it won’t work as well for aggression as Halotestin, and won’t be as good for combating estrogen as Arimidex. Gauged against either one of them alone, Masteron will likely make you look much harder and lift more weight. But if you are looking to do a low dosage cycle with a minimal amount of compounds in it, a simple Testosterone (propionate) and Masteron cycle may be exactly what you are looking for. On a personal note, that is a cycle that I use very frequently, at about 100mgs of each, shot every other day.

But has Masteron actually lived up to my claims for being an anti-estrogen? Yes. From 1968 to 1972, a decent sized study was conducted on Masteron, in a group of premenopausal women with breast cancer. About a third responded well to Masteron (6). This is because of its anti-estrogenic effects, clearly- though it doesn’t perform as well as Arimidex, Letrozole, or Aromasin. If you’re not running huge amounts of aromatizable steroids, this is a very good choice to add into your cycle. If you’re doing large amounts of those compounds, then you need to use a traditional anti-estrogen as your ancillary compound of choice. But if you’re running well under a gram of aromatizable steroids, Masteron will likely be all the anti-estrogen you need. This number comes from my person experience, as well as others I’ve interviewed.

Now, as a bit of an addendum, I’d like to address the use of Masteron in women. Lets get this straight: Masteron was developed for women. Okay? Got me? If you’ ve been paying attention up to this point, you already know that Masteron is intended for females and is derived from the same root (DHT) as most other steroids commonly used and recommended for female athletes (Primobolan, Anavar, Winstrol, etc…are all derived from DHT). And, another shocking fact is that Masteron has a lower androgenic rating than almost every other commonly recommended steroid used by female athletes. Anavar has a rating of 24 compared to oral testosterone and Masteron has a rating of 25 compared to testosterone, expressed as a percent (so yes that means 24% and 25% respectively).

Basically, Masteron works as a hormonal therapy for breast cancer and has been shown to be a useful and safe agent for females of all age groups, even though it may appear to be less effective then other possible therapies in postmenopausal patients (6). It is, therefore, very safe for women. Masteron is certainly no less safe than Anavar or Primobolan for women, as long as it’s used with something resembling a degree of respect and intelligence.

So there you have it. A totally new way to look at an old friend - Masteron - it’s useful as an anti-estrogen as well as an anabolic, and can certainly be safely used by both Men as well as women. ''

I got all dizzy and my brain really hurt reading all that..

Please to stop my brain hurting, can you clarify the above, so are you saying masteron is ok to use as pct? Yes no?

Also a quick question for the oh great learned ones. Is there anyway its possible to top up your own test? Or will regularly taking even the smallest amount of TEstosterone shut down your own supply every time?

[mrgeeky]

Oh and if HCG is not readily available, what about HMG

Im guessing the reason no one uses that is its unavailable too?

[mrgeeky]

wow HMG is easily obtainable..

from wiki!

"Menotropin (also called human menopausal gonadotropin or HMG) is an active substance for the treatment of fertility disturbances. It consists of gonadotropins that are extracted from the urine of postmenopausal women,[1] usually luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH).[2][3] Often, it contains human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) as well.[1][4]

Menotropin medications include Menopur, Menogon, Repronex, Pergonal and HMG Massone.[5] HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropin)[citation needed] is used for stimulating hormones by triggering FSH and LH production in the body. This drug was originally designed for use in women where it stimulates the ovaries to produce multiple follicles, thus making them more fertile.

Human urinary-derived menotropin preparations are exposed to the theoretical risk of infection from menopausal donors of urine. Nevertheless, the failure to demonstrate irrefutably infectivity following intracerebral inoculation with urine from TSE-infected hosts suggests that the risk associated with products derived from urine is merely theoretical.[6]

The Practice Committee of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine reported[7]: “Compared with earlier crude animal extracts, modern highly purified urinary and recombinant gonadotropin products have clearly superior quality, specific activity, and performance. There are no confirmed differences in safety, purity, or clinical efficacy among the various available urinary or recombinant gonadotropin products.”

Note where it says, "It consists of gonadotropins that are extracted from the urine of postmenopausal women"

So if you just get your mrs to piss in a cup.. :grin:

[farrout]

MrGeeky,

Just letting you know blood test results from yesterday, 10 days after last shot.

Testosterone 13.31 nmol/L (8.36 - 28.6)

E2 <37

no specific reading given for those under 37

[mrgeeky]

MrGeeky,

Just letting you know blood test results from yesterday, 10 days after last shot.

Testosterone 13.31 nmol/L (8.36 - 28.6)

E2 <37

no specific reading given for those under 37

heh heh well done..

wonder what it would have been a few hours after the inject? :grin:

Will see my doc on Thurs.. He seems open minded about it all but on the other hand I think he's in the, 3 x 40 mg cap range which obviously just doesnt cut it.

If he's going to hold to that, Im going to have to go off it and start looking at buying gear and just cycling/cruising so Thursday is going to be interesting. I'll let you know how that unfolds.

[musclenz]

I got all dizzy and my brain really hurt reading all that..

Please to stop my brain hurting, can you clarify the above, so are you saying masteron is ok to use as pct? Yes no??

NO

Also a quick question for the oh great learned ones. Is there anyway its possible to top up your own test? Or will regularly taking even the smallest amount of TEstosterone shut down your own supply every time?

YES - JUST PIN SOME OUT OF A VIAL :wink:

[musclenz]

Oh and if HCG is not readily available, what about HMG

Im guessing the reason no one uses that is its unavailable too?

hMG is the "new" HCG. Meant to be more powerful & is more expensive.....only a few uteruses make it :pfft: Have not seen in NZ yet althoufgh its been around in Europe & the US for a few yrs.

[musclenz]

MrGeeky,

Just letting you know blood test results from yesterday, 10 days after last shot.

Testosterone 13.31 nmol/L (8.36 - 28.6)

E2 <37

no specific reading given for those under 37

Sorry to inform you farrout but I believe the range for Total Testosterone is (9-38nmol/L) :nod:

[mrgeeky]

I got all dizzy and my brain really hurt reading all that..

Please to stop my brain hurting, can you clarify the above, so are you saying masteron is ok to use as pct? Yes no??

NO

Also a quick question for the oh great learned ones. Is there anyway its possible to top up your own test? Or will regularly taking even the smallest amount of TEstosterone shut down your own supply every time?

YES - JUST PIN SOME OUT OF A VIAL :wink:

Just pin some out of a vial? Do you mean if used as a one off it wont effect your own test levels? If thats the case, how long can you get away with topping up your own test before your own test dissapears and injected test takes over? Hope that makes sense.. Cheers for the replies musclenz

[musclenz]

I got all dizzy and my brain really hurt reading all that..

Please to stop my brain hurting, can you clarify the above, so are you saying masteron is ok to use as pct? Yes no??

NO

Also a quick question for the oh great learned ones. Is there anyway its possible to top up your own test? Or will regularly taking even the smallest amount of TEstosterone shut down your own supply every time?

YES - JUST PIN SOME OUT OF A VIAL :wink:

Just pin some out of a vial? Do you mean if used as a one off it wont effect your own test levels? If thats the case, how long can you get away with topping up your own test before your own test dissapears and injected test takes over? Hope that makes sense.. Cheers for the replies musclenz

Sorry I was being "tongue in cheek" - any test you inject over what the body produces naturally (around 10mgPD) will shut your natty system down. The body looks for homeostasis in all functions. Its the perfect machine.

[farrout]

MrGeeky,

Just letting you know blood test results from yesterday, 10 days after last shot.

Testosterone 13.31 nmol/L (8.36 - 28.6)

E2 <37

no specific reading given for those under 37

Sorry to inform you farrout but I believe the range for Total Testosterone is (9-38nmol/L) :nod:

No sweat man, I'm only going off the range that's on my blood test results

[mrgeeky]

just wondering if there is anything that can be taken during pct apart from Nolvadex.

As an example, is there any point in taking Clenbuterol while going through pct?

And for those that want a follow up, my doc is ok with my increase of 40mb tabs.. From 3 a day to 7 x 40 a day now.

Will get my bloods done early next week to see where my test level is at before going through PCT..

Edited to ask one more question..

Whats the longest time some one in their 50's should stay on a cycle?

I know its different for every one, just a rough guide?

Im guessing 6 months is long enough?

[Daz69]

just wondering if there is anything that can be taken during pct apart from Nolvadex.

As an example, is there any point in taking Clenbuterol while going through pct?

And for those that want a follow up, my doc is ok with my increase of 40mb tabs.. From 3 a day to 7 x 40 a day now.

Will get my bloods done early next week to see where my test level is at before going through PCT..

Edited to ask one more question..

Whats the longest time some one in their 50's should stay on a cycle?

I know its different for every one, just a rough guide?

Im guessing 6 months is long enough?

Stay on, just cruise once in a while...

[farrout]

just wondering if there is anything that can be taken during pct apart from Nolvadex.

As an example, is there any point in taking Clenbuterol while going through pct?

And for those that want a follow up, my doc is ok with my increase of 40mb tabs.. From 3 a day to 7 x 40 a day now.

Will get my bloods done early next week to see where my test level is at before going through PCT..

Edited to ask one more question..

Whats the longest time some one in their 50's should stay on a cycle?

I know its different for every one, just a rough guide?

Im guessing 6 months is long enough?

Stay on, just cruise once in a while...

I totally agree, this TRT is for life man ...

[mrgeeky]

just wondering if there is anything that can be taken during pct apart from Nolvadex.

As an example, is there any point in taking Clenbuterol while going through pct?

And for those that want a follow up, my doc is ok with my increase of 40mb tabs.. From 3 a day to 7 x 40 a day now.

Will get my bloods done early next week to see where my test level is at before going through PCT..

Edited to ask one more question..

Whats the longest time some one in their 50's should stay on a cycle?

I know its different for every one, just a rough guide?

Im guessing 6 months is long enough?

Stay on, just cruise once in a while...

I have already been on for about 6 months and I am really dreading like hell having to go off.. But Daz69 how long can some one at my age (50) safely cruise for?

Back in my mid 30's I did a 3 month decca cycle, stopped with no pct for a few weeks then back on for another 3 months then came off again with no pct and never really felt any effect from that.

Apart from finding it suddenly got to be hard work pushing weights..

So it looks like I had no trouble getting my test levels back up then. Or does Decca not shut down natural test?

Anyway, in my 50's now so not sure how long I should cruise for.. If it was safe enough I would stay on for as long as possible..

Whats a safe time limit.. I dont want to find myself in a position of having to wait months for my own natural test to come back.. That would be frustrating..

Any thoughts please anyone? How long to cruise for?

[mrgeeky]

just wondering if there is anything that can be taken during pct apart from Nolvadex.

As an example, is there any point in taking Clenbuterol while going through pct?

And for those that want a follow up, my doc is ok with my increase of 40mb tabs.. From 3 a day to 7 x 40 a day now.

Will get my bloods done early next week to see where my test level is at before going through PCT..

Edited to ask one more question..

Whats the longest time some one in their 50's should stay on a cycle?

I know its different for every one, just a rough guide?

Im guessing 6 months is long enough?

Stay on, just cruise once in a while...

I totally agree, this TRT is for life man ...

what happens when Im 70, or 80. suffering bad artharitis and got a bad hip and cant train?

What happens if there is another world war?

What will really happen when we run out of oil?

What if the world changes drastically for some reason?

What happens when NZ finally defualts on its loans one day as it must and NZ government goes broke? Whos going to fund the test then?

There are so many what if's in the future that I just cant see my self wanting to rely on an external source of test no matter how shitty my own is.

At least at the moment I can fall back on my own natural test and not be worried about turning in to a woman.

One day I guess I probably will have to go on for life but at this stage I just cant bring myself to take that step..

Not just yet farrout.. Not just yet mate...

Edited to say.. Yeah yeah, I know.. I might be sounding a little melodramatic but the reality is Im not prepared to rely on an external source for life. Not at this stage anyway. :-)

[farrout]

Stay on, just cruise once in a while...

I totally agree, this TRT is for life man ...

what happens when Im 70, or 80. suffering bad artharitis and got a bad hip and cant train?

What happens if there is another world war?

What will really happen when we run out of oil?

What if the world changes drastically for some reason?

What happens when NZ finally defualts on its loans one day as it must and NZ government goes broke? Whos going to fund the test then?

There are so many what if's in the future that I just cant see my self wanting to rely on an external source of test no matter how shitty my own is.

At least at the moment I can fall back on my own natural test and not be worried about turning in to a woman.

One day I guess I probably will have to go on for life but at this stage I just cant bring myself to take that step..

Not just yet farrout.. Not just yet mate...

Edited to say.. Yeah yeah, I know.. I might be sounding a little melodramatic but the reality is Im not prepared to rely on an external source for life. Not at this stage anyway. :-)

Since I was dying late 2008, my endocrine system as well as other body systems do not function how they should or at all, hence the need for external support.

In my situation, the fact remains that my body is never going to produce enough test - if any - to function normally.

[Daz69]

just wondering if there is anything that can be taken during pct apart from Nolvadex.

As an example, is there any point in taking Clenbuterol while going through pct?

And for those that want a follow up, my doc is ok with my increase of 40mb tabs.. From 3 a day to 7 x 40 a day now.

Will get my bloods done early next week to see where my test level is at before going through PCT..

Edited to ask one more question..

Whats the longest time some one in their 50's should stay on a cycle?

I know its different for every one, just a rough guide?

Im guessing 6 months is long enough?

Stay on, just cruise once in a while...

I have already been on for about 6 months and I am really dreading like hell having to go off.. But Daz69 how long can some one at my age (50) safely cruise for?

Back in my mid 30's I did a 3 month decca cycle, stopped with no pct for a few weeks then back on for another 3 months then came off again with no pct and never really felt any effect from that.

Apart from finding it suddenly got to be hard work pushing weights..

So it looks like I had no trouble getting my test levels back up then. Or does Decca not shut down natural test?

Anyway, in my 50's now so not sure how long I should cruise for.. If it was safe enough I would stay on for as long as possible..

Whats a safe time limit.. I dont want to find myself in a position of having to wait months for my own natural test to come back.. That would be frustrating..

Any thoughts please anyone? How long to cruise for?

Whats the point coming off and waiting for what ever natural test you are producing to return to normal, then when it does you go back on again...?

I've been on since March 2010 cruising & blasting, 12-18wks on blast, 6wks @ 0.4ml X 2/wk on cruise........ And I'm as old as you... f*ck worrying about what might happen in the future, it could all change in an instant... Live for now M8'........

[mrgeeky]

yeah I know mate.. you had no choice.. Im very lucky.. I do have a choice..

My own test is still there.. 13 nmol/L Just that it doesnt work as well as it should. And obviously is low.

Being lucky in that I dont have to rely on an external source, I dont want to lose that option..

If I were in your situation then i would have no choice and no worries about being on for life.. Got to be better than being dead..

Can I ask farrout why you were dying? No worries if you dont want to say..

cheers mate.

[mrgeeky]

Stay on, just cruise once in a while...

I have already been on for about 6 months and I am really dreading like hell having to go off.. But Daz69 how long can some one at my age (50) safely cruise for?

Back in my mid 30's I did a 3 month decca cycle, stopped with no pct for a few weeks then back on for another 3 months then came off again with no pct and never really felt any effect from that.

Apart from finding it suddenly got to be hard work pushing weights..

So it looks like I had no trouble getting my test levels back up then. Or does Decca not shut down natural test?

Anyway, in my 50's now so not sure how long I should cruise for.. If it was safe enough I would stay on for as long as possible..

Whats a safe time limit.. I dont want to find myself in a position of having to wait months for my own natural test to come back.. That would be frustrating..

Any thoughts please anyone? How long to cruise for?

Whats the point coming off and waiting for what ever natural test you are producing to return to normal, then when it does you go back on again...?

I've been on since March 2010 cruising & blasting, 12-18wks on blast, 6wks @ 0.4ml X 2/wk........ And I'm as old as you... f*ck worrying about what might happen in the future, it could all change in an instant... Live for now M8'........

Holy crap, you been cruising and blasting for 2 years.. Jeeze, arent you worried your own test will never come back?

[farrout]

yeah I know mate.. you had no choice.. Im very lucky.. I do have a choice..

My own test is still there.. 13 nmol/L Just that it doesnt work as well as it should. And obviously is low.

Being lucky in that I dont have to rely on an external source, I dont want to lose that option..

If I were in your situation then i would have no choice and no worries about being on for life.. Got to be better than being dead..

Can I ask farrout why you were dying? No worries if you dont want to say..

cheers mate.

Undiagnosed burst appendix, which had been burst for 7 weeks before it was removed, however only with laproscopic surgery. The infection was not removed & my body was shutting down, so I had full open abdominal surgery to remove as much poison as possible. After surgery, I got worse & accepted that I was dying then one day I experienced going to the light.

After that I knew I would make it.

Lost 19kg, couldn't even stand up & was still having septic shock over 4 months later.

[mrgeeky]

yeah I know mate.. you had no choice.. Im very lucky.. I do have a choice..

My own test is still there.. 13 nmol/L Just that it doesnt work as well as it should. And obviously is low.

Being lucky in that I dont have to rely on an external source, I dont want to lose that option..

If I were in your situation then i would have no choice and no worries about being on for life.. Got to be better than being dead..

Can I ask farrout why you were dying? No worries if you dont want to say..

cheers mate.

Undiagnosed burst appendix, which had been burst for 7 weeks before it was removed, however only with laproscopic surgery. The infection was not removed & my body was shutting down, so I had full open abdominal surgery to remove as much poison as possible. After surgery, I got worse & accepted that I was dying then one day I experienced going to the light.

After that I knew I would make it.

Lost 19kg, couldn't even stand up & was still having septic shock over 4 months later.

what a bitch.. To go through so much for an undiagnosed burst appendix in this day and age seems crazy. Was the doc an idiot or was it just bad luck?

[farrout]

yeah I know mate.. you had no choice.. Im very lucky.. I do have a choice..

My own test is still there.. 13 nmol/L Just that it doesnt work as well as it should. And obviously is low.

Being lucky in that I dont have to rely on an external source, I dont want to lose that option..

If I were in your situation then i would have no choice and no worries about being on for life.. Got to be better than being dead..

Can I ask farrout why you were dying? No worries if you dont want to say..

cheers mate.

Undiagnosed burst appendix, which had been burst for 7 weeks before it was removed, however only with laproscopic surgery. The infection was not removed & my body was shutting down, so I had full open abdominal surgery to remove as much poison as possible. After surgery, I got worse & accepted that I was dying then one day I experienced going to the light.

After that I knew I would make it.

Lost 19kg, couldn't even stand up & was still having septic shock over 4 months later.

what a bitch.. To go through so much for an undiagnosed burst appendix in this day and age seems crazy. Was the doc an idiot or was it just bad luck?

Doctor was fucken useless, obviously he is no longer my GP. Was disappointing after 25 years. I went to him twice before it was diagnosed at hospital with ultrasound & CT scans. He said it was an abdominal strain & as I was 40, needed to start taking it easy.

[mrgeeky]

Bummer!

yep some pretty shocking doctors out there. Some bloody good ones too but some real nutters too unfortunately...

I have had some shocking experiences with doctors. Its funny. In years gone by I used to trust them explicitly. But as you age you get wiser.

I had an over active thyroid gland that I seen a specialist for.

$350 for a 15 minute appointment and a few blood tests later and he wanted to charge me $7,000 to cut my thyroid. Apparently I had - according to him, a toxic thyroid nodule.

For some reason I didnt trust him and I refused to let him operate. I jsut took meds to keep my thyroid in check and waited it out to see what would happen.. I probably would have waited a couple of years or so if needed to see where it was going to lead.

After about 6 months I came right. I went back to the specialist to see what gives. Bastard still insisted it needed cutting out. So off to an endo who told me the specialist was mad. I had just had a thyroid virus which had come and gone. I was free of any problems. Specialist would have happily cut my thyroid and left me on pills for life for a lousy 7k.

I have a few more similar stories I could share too. Unfortunately all to often we trust these guys too much instead of questioning what they are doing. There are some good doctors but there are some real quacks in the medical proffession too unfortunately. I guess just because one is highly educated, does not give them all ethics or common sense!