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Testosterone. Im going back wards? What gives?


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Hi guys, can some one offer some advice...

I was feeling really really lethargic and had been for years.. So I talked the doc in to giving me arrow testosterone supplements..

I sTarted off on 1 40mg cap of test a day and worked up to 2 caps perday. My natural testosterone levels were 16 at the time and I'm aged 50 years old.

.

They seemed to work wonders. I did notice a huge improvement for starters, got good weight gains on my weights workouts, felt much better, started losing weight, but after a few weeks that seemed to slow and I felt like I was starting to go backwards and started to feel a little lethargic again, although admittledly, not as bad as I was originally....

So I went in for another testosterone level test and my levels are down to 9... Like wow, that was a shock.. What gives? I thought the testosterone supplements were supposed to raise my levels, not lower them?

Im guessing that taking this stuff has shut down my own test manufacturing, and now Im relying on the meager dose I have been given by the doc. If thats the case, wouldnt I be better off just going with out test supplements.. another words if I stop taking the test supplements, wont my levels go back up to 16?

Also, at the moment, Im on this stuff 24/7, wouldnt I be better just cylcing the stuff..

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You don't sound very educated on the subject, which you should be considering you've been prescribed something. Your doctor has probably done a poor job, as they tend to not really know anything specific about anything.

See if you cant get a referral to an endocrinologist.

Whatever he has given you seems to have done more harm than good. If it is an oral testosterone then i would say the dose is too low considering the bioavailablity of orals, so you've shut down your natural production and now your only on a tiny replacement dose.

Also HRT isn't cycled, its constant and it's for life, and if you have low natural test, you will feel great when your on a proper HRT plan.

Get that referral if you can, or talk to a doctor who knows more about this than the one your currently seeing. I mean geez, considering your test levels decreased, he should have already augmented your plan and be trying something different.

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You don't sound very educated on the subject, which you should be considering you've been prescribed something. Your doctor has probably done a poor job, as they tend to not really know anything specific about anything.

See if you cant get a referral to an endocrinologist.

Whatever he has given you seems to have done more harm than good. If it is an oral testosterone then i would say the dose is too low considering the bioavailablity of orals, so you've shut down your natural production and now your only on a tiny replacement dose.

Also HRT isn't cycled, its constant and it's for life, and if you have low natural test, you will feel great when your on a proper HRT plan.

Get that referral if you can, or talk to a doctor who knows more about this than the one your currently seeing. I mean geez, considering your test levels decreased, he should have already augmented your plan and be trying something different.

he is supposeldy one of the better educated doctors on the subject, thats why i went to him..

I just got my blood tests done through him, that showed the low level..

He has recommended I take one more so am now upping it to 3 caps or oral, but I fear that is still going to be too low.. He says to go back and see him when this lots runs out in about a month and he'll discuss things further....

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Whatever he has given you seems to have done more harm than good. If it is an oral testosterone then i would say the dose is too low considering the bioavailablity of orals, so you've shut down your natural production and now your only on a tiny replacement dose.

.

Thats exactly what I thought was happening..

And I am supposed to be on it for life..

I wonder if he will be looking at upping the dose drastically when i got to see him.. But for the next month, it sounds like I would be better of stop taking it and going back to my normal natural levels...

And yes, you are right, Im not overly educated but one can only learn eh?

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You taking it with food, right? or on empty stomach?

time to move to injectable test.

I normally take it on an empty stomache? Is that not good? :shock:

One opinion:

Our results show the importance of food to the bioavailability of testosterone undecanoate. We identified significantly increased serum levels of testosterone undecanoate, testosterone, and DHT in subjects who took Andriol Testocaps with a meal, as opposed to those who received the drug in a fasting state.

The most common indication for testosterone undecanoate is male hypogonadism. For patients with this condition, the therapeutic goal is to restore serum testosterone to the normal range of approximately 3-10 ng/ml. In this study, a single dose of Andriol Testocaps 80 mg administered to women elevated testosterone levels to this normal range, but only if taken with food.

Thus, testosterone undecanoate appears to be successful in restoring physiologic testosterone levels if taken with food. The large individual variations and low testosterone levels that occasionally have been observed after administration of testosterone undecanoate might reflect that some subjects have taken this agent in a fasting state.[8] In our study, only one type of food (a standardized continental breakfast) was evaluated; further studies are needed to assess the effects of foods with different compositions and contents on the bioavailability of testosterone undecanoate.

Full article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/451843_4

With injectable test, you don't need to eat for it to absorb properly. Just to grow properly.

And I think the next step would be injectable, if prescribed to 'fix' the lack of value you gained from the orals.

You started off on gel, didn't you? (or maybe that was Farrout)

See, now orals, next...

injectables.

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You taking it with food, right? or on empty stomach?

time to move to injectable test.

I normally take it on an empty stomache? Is that not good? :shock:

One opinion:

Our results show the importance of food to the bioavailability of testosterone undecanoate. We identified significantly increased serum levels of testosterone undecanoate, testosterone, and DHT in subjects who took Andriol Testocaps with a meal, as opposed to those who received the drug in a fasting state.

The most common indication for testosterone undecanoate is male hypogonadism. For patients with this condition, the therapeutic goal is to restore serum testosterone to the normal range of approximately 3-10 ng/ml. In this study, a single dose of Andriol Testocaps 80 mg administered to women elevated testosterone levels to this normal range, but only if taken with food.

Thus, testosterone undecanoate appears to be successful in restoring physiologic testosterone levels if taken with food. The large individual variations and low testosterone levels that occasionally have been observed after administration of testosterone undecanoate might reflect that some subjects have taken this agent in a fasting state.[8] In our study, only one type of food (a standardized continental breakfast) was evaluated; further studies are needed to assess the effects of foods with different compositions and contents on the bioavailability of testosterone undecanoate.

Full article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/451843_4

With injectable test, you don't need to eat for it to absorb properly. Just to grow properly.

And I think the next step would be injectable, if prescribed to 'fix' the lack of value you gained from the orals.

You started off on gel, didn't you? (or maybe that was Farrout)

See, now orals, next...

injectables.

Well I'll be.. It's not mentioned on the prescription or on the bottle to be taken with food.. But I shall do so from now on..

yes, im guessing thats going to be next, injected test..

I'm happy with that.. If I am correct, that's once every couple of weeks?

Will probably be easier to remember than to be remember to swallow a handlfull of pills ever day...

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Well, every week will show you want you have been seeking, even if you get prescribed fornightly. Supplement your pharma with an UG brand of the same. Eventually you may jusy go full UG to save money.

One weekly pin will be a great start @250mg/wk, if everything else is in check.

BUt see how changing your current timing to meet a meal can change things. You should know soon enough.

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Oral administration of test undeconate works nothing like the same quantity injected. It is only bio active in the blood for around 8hrs so it would very much depend on when your tests were done as to the levels & indicates that split doses are requuired daily. There are other factors like exercise etc that impacts on readings. I just did a C&P from Medsafe's info on Arrow which gives good advise & backs up some points on here from members :

ARROW - TESTOSTERONE testosterone undecanoate 40mg capsule

This product may not be interchangeable with other products containing this

ingredient in the New Zealand Market Presentation Arrow – Testosterone is oval, orange clear, soft gelatin capsule, ink-printed in white

with "P" logo and "40" on the same line.

Uses Actions

Testosterone is the principal endogenous hormone essential for normal growth and development of the male sex organs and male secondary sex characteristics. During adult life testosterone is essential for the functioning of the testes and accessory structures, and for the maintenance of libido, sense of well-being, erectile potency, prostate and seminal vesicle function.

Treatment of hypogonadal males with testosterone results in a clinically significant rise of plasma concentrations of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone and androstenedione, as well as a decrease of SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin). In males with primary (hypergonadotropic) hypogonadism treatment with testosterone results in a normalization of gonadotrophin levels.

Pharmacokinetics Following oral administration, part of the testosterone undecanoate is co-absorbed with the lipophilic solvent from the intestine into the lymphatic system, thus circumventing the first-pass inactivation by the liver. During absorption testosterone undecanoate is partly reduced to dihydrotestosterone undecanoate. From the lymphatic system it is released into the plasma. In plasma and tissues both testosterone undecanoate and dihydrotestosterone undecanoate are hydrolysed to yield the natural male androgens testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. Single administration of 80-160mg testosterone leads to a clinically significant increase of total plasma testosterone with peak-levels of approximately 40 nmol/L (Cmax) reached

approximately 4-5 hours after administration (tmax). Plasma testosterone levels

remain elevated for at least 8 hours. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are

metabolised via the normal pathways. Excretion mainly takes place via the urine as conjugates of etiocholanolone and androsterone.

Indications In the male Testosterone replacement therapy for primary or secondary hypogonadal disorders, for example:

• after castration

• eunuchoidism

• hypopituitarism

• endocrine impotence

• male climacteric symptoms such as decreased libido and decreased mental and

physical activity

• certain types of infertility due to disorders of spermatogenesis.

Moreover, testosterone therapy may be indicated in osteoporosis in the male due to androgen deficiency.

Dosage and Administration

Dosage

In general, dosage should be adjusted according to the response of the individual patient. Usually, an initial dosage of 120 – 160 mg daily for 2 - 3 weeks is adequate, followed by a maintenance dosage of 40 – 120 mg daily.

Administration

ARROW - TESTOSTERONE capsules should be taken after meals, with a little fluid if necessary, and swallowed whole without chewing. It is preferable that half of the daily dose be taken in the morning and the other half in the evening. If an uneven number of capsules are to be taken, the larger dose should be taken in the morning

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Oral administration of test undeconate works nothing like the same quantity injected. It is only bio active in the blood for around 8hrs so it would very much depend on when your tests were done as to the levels & indicates that split doses are requuired daily. There are other factors like exercise etc that impacts on readings. I just did a C&P from Medsafe's info on Arrow which gives good advise & backs up some points on here from members :

ARROW - TESTOSTERONE testosterone undecanoate 40mg capsule

This product may not be interchangeable with other products containing this

ingredient in the New Zealand Market Presentation Arrow – Testosterone is oval, orange clear, soft gelatin capsule, ink-printed in white

with "P" logo and "40" on the same line.

Uses Actions

Testosterone is the principal endogenous hormone essential for normal growth and development of the male sex organs and male secondary sex characteristics. During adult life testosterone is essential for the functioning of the testes and accessory structures, and for the maintenance of libido, sense of well-being, erectile potency, prostate and seminal vesicle function.

Treatment of hypogonadal males with testosterone results in a clinically significant rise of plasma concentrations of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone and androstenedione, as well as a decrease of SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin). In males with primary (hypergonadotropic) hypogonadism treatment with testosterone results in a normalization of gonadotrophin levels.

Pharmacokinetics Following oral administration, part of the testosterone undecanoate is co-absorbed with the lipophilic solvent from the intestine into the lymphatic system, thus circumventing the first-pass inactivation by the liver. During absorption testosterone undecanoate is partly reduced to dihydrotestosterone undecanoate. From the lymphatic system it is released into the plasma. In plasma and tissues both testosterone undecanoate and dihydrotestosterone undecanoate are hydrolysed to yield the natural male androgens testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. Single administration of 80-160mg testosterone leads to a clinically significant increase of total plasma testosterone with peak-levels of approximately 40 nmol/L (Cmax) reached

approximately 4-5 hours after administration (tmax). Plasma testosterone levels

remain elevated for at least 8 hours. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are

metabolised via the normal pathways. Excretion mainly takes place via the urine as conjugates of etiocholanolone and androsterone.

Indications In the male Testosterone replacement therapy for primary or secondary hypogonadal disorders, for example:

• after castration

• eunuchoidism

• hypopituitarism

• endocrine impotence

• male climacteric symptoms such as decreased libido and decreased mental and

physical activity

• certain types of infertility due to disorders of spermatogenesis.

Moreover, testosterone therapy may be indicated in osteoporosis in the male due to androgen deficiency.

Dosage and Administration

Dosage

In general, dosage should be adjusted according to the response of the individual patient. Usually, an initial dosage of 120 – 160 mg daily for 2 - 3 weeks is adequate, followed by a maintenance dosage of 40 – 120 mg daily.

Administration

ARROW - TESTOSTERONE capsules should be taken after meals, with a little fluid if necessary, and swallowed whole without chewing. It is preferable that half of the daily dose be taken in the morning and the other half in the evening. If an uneven number of capsules are to be taken, the larger dose should be taken in the morning

ajwdgg.gif

jakes.... you really should be on injectable stuff man. a little bit over hrt for the win :grin:

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Well, every week will show you want you have been seeking, even if you get prescribed fornightly. Supplement your pharma with an UG brand of the same. Eventually you may jusy go full UG to save money.

One weekly pin will be a great start @250mg/wk, if everything else is in check.

BUt see how changing your current timing to meet a meal can change things. You should know soon enough.

cheers for that.. will let you know how it goes taking it at meal times..

As for UG being cheaper?

At the moment, coz its prescribed through the health styem, its freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :D

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Oral administration of test undeconate works nothing like the same quantity injected. It is only bio active in the blood for around 8hrs so it would very much depend on when your tests were done as to the levels & indicates that split doses are requuired daily. There are other factors like exercise etc that impacts on readings. I just did a C&P from Medsafe's info on Arrow which gives good advise & backs up some points on here from members :

ARROW - TESTOSTERONE testosterone undecanoate 40mg capsule

This product may not be interchangeable with other products containing this

ingredient in the New Zealand Market Presentation Arrow – Testosterone is oval, orange clear, soft gelatin capsule, ink-printed in white

with "P" logo and "40" on the same line.

Uses Actions

Testosterone is the principal endogenous hormone essential for normal growth and development of the male sex organs and male secondary sex characteristics. During adult life testosterone is essential for the functioning of the testes and accessory structures, and for the maintenance of libido, sense of well-being, erectile potency, prostate and seminal vesicle function.

Treatment of hypogonadal males with testosterone results in a clinically significant rise of plasma concentrations of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone and androstenedione, as well as a decrease of SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin). In males with primary (hypergonadotropic) hypogonadism treatment with testosterone results in a normalization of gonadotrophin levels.

Pharmacokinetics Following oral administration, part of the testosterone undecanoate is co-absorbed with the lipophilic solvent from the intestine into the lymphatic system, thus circumventing the first-pass inactivation by the liver. During absorption testosterone undecanoate is partly reduced to dihydrotestosterone undecanoate. From the lymphatic system it is released into the plasma. In plasma and tissues both testosterone undecanoate and dihydrotestosterone undecanoate are hydrolysed to yield the natural male androgens testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. Single administration of 80-160mg testosterone leads to a clinically significant increase of total plasma testosterone with peak-levels of approximately 40 nmol/L (Cmax) reached

approximately 4-5 hours after administration (tmax). Plasma testosterone levels

remain elevated for at least 8 hours. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are

metabolised via the normal pathways. Excretion mainly takes place via the urine as conjugates of etiocholanolone and androsterone.

Indications In the male Testosterone replacement therapy for primary or secondary hypogonadal disorders, for example:

• after castration

• eunuchoidism

• hypopituitarism

• endocrine impotence

• male climacteric symptoms such as decreased libido and decreased mental and

physical activity

• certain types of infertility due to disorders of spermatogenesis.

Moreover, testosterone therapy may be indicated in osteoporosis in the male due to androgen deficiency.

Dosage and Administration

Dosage

In general, dosage should be adjusted according to the response of the individual patient. Usually, an initial dosage of 120 – 160 mg daily for 2 - 3 weeks is adequate, followed by a maintenance dosage of 40 – 120 mg daily.

Administration

ARROW - TESTOSTERONE capsules should be taken after meals, with a little fluid if necessary, and swallowed whole without chewing. It is preferable that half of the daily dose be taken in the morning and the other half in the evening. If an uneven number of capsules are to be taken, the larger dose should be taken in the morning

Awesome post and very informative.. thank you for this..

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You may recall from previous posts I've made on this subject, that even on 6 caps a day - 3 morning & night - my levels were still too low hence the move to Sustanon 250 & then Depo-Testosterone pinning weekly.

Hi Farrout..

yep, but you have to remember, this is my health Im dealing with here.. I do have to take personal responsibility for my own actions.. hence the softly softly approach.. Just finding my way through all this.

But anyway, if I went to my doc and said, hey give me 250mg of Sustanon injectibles per week.. Im sure he would have jumped to the conclusion I was just looking for a roid fix and kicked me out of his rooms..

I cant go against my doctors orders.. I have to follow his wishes through this process. So I may be going the long way about it, but I'll get there mate..

Im sure thats where my doctor is heading with the above dosage you stated.

Farrout, from memory you felt kinda flat on the Sustanon 250mg so moved over to the Depo-Testosterone pinning is that correct?

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