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Supplement Stack


nate225

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Thought I'd get some feedback on my dieting supplement stack. I usually keep things pretty simple in the offseason - whey, creatine, multi, fish oils, vitamin C and the odd pre-workout, however I've ramped it up a fair bit with the cut for comp. For simplicity I've treated whey protein as a food as I'm having 4xday at present.

Morning:

Pre-Cardio / empty stomach

Acetyl L-Carnitine (1 cap - 500mg)

Phenorex or Spirodex or Turbo-Genesis (1 oe either, cycle 2 weeks on etc)

Breakfast:

Vitamin C (1 cap - 250mg)

Multi Vitamin

Fish Oil (2 caps - 1000mg each)

Aspirin (1 cap 75mg)

Milk Thistle (1 cap - 160mg Silyimarin)

Joint Formula (1 cap - Hydrolysed Collagen 100mg, Glucosamine Sulphate 400mg, Chondroiton Sulphate 250mg)

Night:

Empty Stomach:

ZMA (2 caps)

With last shake:

Fish Oil (2 caps - 1000mg each)

Milk Thistle (1 cap - 160mg Silyimarin)

Joint Formula (1 cap - Hydrolysed Collagen 100mg, Glucosamine Sulphate 400mg, Chondroiton Sulphate 250mg)

BCAA (5g)

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Nice complete list there mate. Just some thoughts don't have to follow...

BCAAs just before bedtime, would have thought they go thru the body faster than a WPI shake?

Most whole food proteins and this includes your protein shake are made of about 15% BCAAs. So if you're eating 400gms protein a day you are consuming 66 grams of BCAAs every day.

Would rather have those pre-workout or post workout mate and L-Leucine alone is proving to be the best for muscle synthesis and muscle saving so if you can pick a 8:1:1 ration BCAA rather than the old-school 2:1:1 ratio you'll pick up that 1st place trophy instead of the 2nd place one :roll:

Vitamin C, I don't know what a "normal" or a "high" dose is but it's water soluble so you've pee'd it out by lunchtime. Would have 250mg 3 times a day

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Nice complete list there mate. Just some thoughts don't have to follow...

BCAAs just before bedtime, would have thought they go thru the body faster than a WPI shake?

Most whole food proteins and this includes your protein shake are made of about 15% BCAAs. So if you're eating 400gms protein a day you are consuming 66 grams of BCAAs every day.

Would rather have those pre-workout or post workout mate and L-Leucine alone is proving to be the best for muscle synthesis and muscle saving so if you can pick a 8:1:1 ration BCAA rather than the old-school 2:1:1 ratio you'll pick up that 1st place trophy instead of the 2nd place one :roll:

LOL - have the 2:1:1, but seeing as Steve Orton's in my class I'll graciously accept 2nd! :grin:

I'm only on a lowish amount of protein atm - somewhere around 250 grams (long story! :pfft: ) - but will consider the advice. Been having in the shake, which is WPC not WPI, not that that makes too much difference in the real world.

Vitamin C, I don't know what a "normal" or a "high" dose is but it's water soluble so you've pee'd it out by lunchtime. Would have 250mg 3 times a day

Have been having one at night some nights, will do as a regular thing.

Cheers for your thoughts Android.

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Would also move your BCAAs just before training. best to have something slow at night to prevent protein breakdown, BCAAs to stimulate synthesis just before training.

What you taking milk thistle for bro?

Will do re: BCAA's

Milk Thistle - as anti-oxidant, protective benefits to liver (and potentially kidneys) as you're probably already aware? :grin:

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Heard something quite interesting/alarming regarding Vit C supplementation lately; Supposedly supplementing with excessive Vit C (Don't think 250mg is excessive, btw) can inhibit the cellular adapatations to exercise. Oxidative stress is needed to spur some adaptations, and supplementing with large doses of anti-oxidants (1g+ of Vit C from the little I've read) reduces that oxidative stress and thus the training adaptation/performance increase.

I've only skimmed a few studies, and all seemed to be on endurance training. Will need to hunt a bit harder to find anything done regarding resistance training, but the oxidative stress is there (less than endurance exercise, but still) so surely adaptation to that might relate to strength/muscle gains?

Anyone read/heard more on this? Got a few tabs open to peruse the next few days :lol:

Anywho, back to simpler matters - that's a crap load of supps :shock: Do you feel it's making a difference compared to previous pre-comp phases? or are there too many other altered variables to even make a comparison?

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Interesting point Phedder - not one many of us will have considered! Do find out more.

Yeah seems a lot of supps to me as well. The last time I dieted for a show was 12 years ago - bit hazy on the memory (maybe too much vitamin M :pfft: :grin: ).

I will say the following, mostly purely from an anecdotal perspective:

Acetyl L-Carnitine - seems to have given me a wee boost since introducing 2 weeks ago. Energy levels seem better, however that could just be my body adapting to the lower calories rather than fat being utillised better?

Phenorex or Spirodex or Turbo-Genesis - all DMAA / caffeine / stim products and seem to be working as such.

Vitamin C - since introducing this over 12 months ago in doses between 250 - 500 mg I dont seem to have had as many or as severe colds/flu's. Also could be due to my kids being a bit older & not giving me colds every 5 minutes! :grin:

Multi Vitamin - no noticeable effects but I've always considered it a cheap backstop when nutrition is neglected

Fish Oil - no noticeable effects

Aspirin - no noticeable effects, other than bleeding takes longer to clot.

Milk Thistle - demonstrable benefits to Liver enzyme readings in the past

Joint Formula - no noticeable effects, though probably a little early to evaluate?

ZMA - definately sleeping better, feeling more alive during early am cardio.

BCAA - no noticeable effects, but maybe combined with feelings of recovery attributed to ZMA / Acetyl Carnitine?? One of our local Pro's said he found his BCAA's to be the best single supplement he'd used, with huge recovery benefits??

Anyway all pretty subjective stuff, and opinion rather than scientific fact. Take from it what you want! :grin:

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Interesting point Phedder - not one many of us will have considered! Do find out more.

It was something a lecturer quickly glossed over, I'll flick her an email and see if she knows of anything regarding resistance training. A few enduro studies have shown a difference of 5-10% less increase in VO2max. (Vit C group still improving VO2max, but not by as much as control.)

Good little summary there Nate, always nice to hear the thoughts of those taking the supps instead of the industries BS marketing and funded studies :nod: Never used many supps myself, but have a little more income this year to play with so some BCAA are on the way and likely some ZMA later on. Better sleep is something everyone can benefit from, and something I'm going to need with a few night shifts!

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Acetyl L-Carnitine

sure i read some study that basically said although this helps with fat breakdown or whatever in the cells, eating it does not result in it getting to where its needed to have this effect

I remember something similar for plain L-Carnitine, but TBH I dont know a lot about either L-C or A L-C. I took this on the recommendation of my Coach (ex-Pro), my bio-chem guru mate, and my friendly supplement retailer! :pfft: :grin:

Keen to find out mor if you can source info?

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Acetyl L-Carnitine

sure i read some study that basically said although this helps with fat breakdown or whatever in the cells, eating it does not result in it getting to where its needed to have this effect

I remember something similar for plain L-Carnitine, but TBH I dont know a lot about either L-C or A L-C. I took this on the recommendation of my Coach (ex-Pro), my bio-chem guru mate, and my friendly supplement retailer! :pfft: :grin:

Keen to find out mor if you can source info?

didnt realise it was different, my bad. interesting...

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Acetyl L-Carnitine

sure i read some study that basically said although this helps with fat breakdown or whatever in the cells, eating it does not result in it getting to where its needed to have this effect

I remember something similar for plain L-Carnitine, but TBH I dont know a lot about either L-C or A L-C. I took this on the recommendation of my Coach (ex-Pro), my bio-chem guru mate, and my friendly supplement retailer! :pfft: :grin:

Keen to find out mor if you can source info?

I love Bio-Chemists - wish i had more mates that were..... :)

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What zma product do you take and do you recommend it??

New to me so I cant say any brands better than the other - I'd recommend trying it - dirt cheap anyway!

Dirt cheap? Mustn't have sourced it in NZ then :lol:

Seriously though, all ZMA products I've seen are quite expensive within NZ, and most overseas sites won't ship products with more than 10-15mg(?) zinc per serving to NZ? What brand and where from? (Inb4banforsourceseeking :pfft: )

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  • 4 months later...

Milk Thistle - demonstrable benefits to Liver enzyme readings in the past

Is that just the typical liver enzyme bloods or something a little more specialised/targeted? Just hit the lab yesterday and 'Liver' was one of the listed items. Kinda frustrating when the form has that degree of vagueness.

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