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Why does TALL equal STRONG?


Jigga

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You would think that with shorter levers your muscles wouldn't have to exert as much force to move a weight and because of the shorter ROM the time under tension is less for a certain number of reps?

Why is it then, that the strongest guys in the world are all tall? Even Beni (who I thought was short) is 6ft. Savickas 6'3. Mariusz 6'1. Kaz 6'3 etc.

Is it that short people can't put on the same amount of muscle as a tall guy to take advantage of their short levers? Is it a hormone thing - bigger body, bigger organs?

Is this phenomenon the source of little man syndrome or is that an eye level thing?

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When you talk about Strongman Comps the advantage often comes purely from the height & reach a big man has over a shorter man. A good example of this is lifting Atlas Stones with T-Rex arms aint easy, especially when you have to put them on a high platform!

The taller competitor can generally hold more bodyweight as well, while remaining mobile. Obviously in a truck pull or similar this helps immensely. It also helps in heavy log lifts where a lighter man gets pushed around a bit more in the clean phase, though you'd think once the press phase came into play the shorter limbed competitor would have an advantage.

Taller guys also tend to be good deadlifters (see some you mentioned), which is a huge advantage in Strongman in many events.

When it comes to Powerlifting the game changes slighty - benching & squatting particularly, but I'll leave one of the PLing lads to explain their views on this.

Nate

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When you talk about Strongman Comps the advantage often comes purely from the height & reach a big man has over a shorter man. A good example of this is lifting Atlas Stones with T-Rex arms aint easy, especially when you have to put them on a high platform!

The taller competitor can generally hold more bodyweight as well, while remaining mobile. Obviously in a truck pull or similar this helps immensely. It also helps in heavy log lifts where a lighter man gets pushed around a bit more in the clean phase, though you'd think once the press phase came into play the shorter limbed competitor would have an advantage.

Taller guys also tend to be good deadlifters (see some you mentioned), which is a huge advantage in Strongman in many events.

When it comes to Powerlifting the game changes slighty - benching & squatting particularly, but I'll leave one of the PLing lads to explain their views on this.

Nate

It's like you took the words right out of my mouth, but yeah i agree. :nod:

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When you talk about Strongman Comps the advantage often comes purely from the height & reach a big man has over a shorter man. A good example of this is lifting Atlas Stones with T-Rex arms aint easy, especially when you have to put them on a high platform!

The taller competitor can generally hold more bodyweight as well, while remaining mobile. Obviously in a truck pull or similar this helps immensely. It also helps in heavy log lifts where a lighter man gets pushed around a bit more in the clean phase, though you'd think once the press phase came into play the shorter limbed competitor would have an advantage.

Taller guys also tend to be good deadlifters (see some you mentioned), which is a huge advantage in Strongman in many events.

When it comes to Powerlifting the game changes slighty - benching & squatting particularly, but I'll leave one of the PLing lads to explain their views on this.

Nate

I can see the obvious advantages RE atlas stones, truck pull etc but even outside strongman events, the taller guys are always at the top of the heap.

RE pressing:

Savickas 6'3

Kennely 6'2

Kokylaev 6'4

Any movement - curling, pressing, pulling, squatting (where weight gives you no advantage) is dominated by guys 6'+

They progress faster and peak higher, regardless of whether their bodyweight helps them or not?

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so short guys are stronger than tall guys, thats not right, if you get a tall guy same stature as short guy he is able to shift more weight, but i guess that is because he is bigger (even though same build) so kinda makes sense as to why taller guys can lift more. apparently the closer your bicep muscle is to your elbow when you flex the more weight you can shift due to longer leverage aswell??

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so short guys are stronger than tall guys, thats not right, if you get a tall guy same stature as short guy he is able to shift more weight, but i guess that is because he is bigger (even though same build) so kinda makes sense as to why taller guys can lift more. apparently the closer your bicep muscle is to your elbow when you flex the more weight you can shift due to longer leverage aswell??

put it this way. if u were doing bicep curls with weights strapped to your forearm, it would get increasingly easier as you moved the weight from your wrist towards your elbow. likewise shorter limbs =less torque exerted by weights on muscles.

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so short guys are stronger than tall guys, thats not right, if you get a tall guy same stature as short guy he is able to shift more weight, but i guess that is because he is bigger (even though same build) so kinda makes sense as to why taller guys can lift more. apparently the closer your bicep muscle is to your elbow when you flex the more weight you can shift due to longer leverage aswell??

put it this way. if u were doing bicep curls with weights strapped to your forearm, it would get increasingly easier as you moved the weight from your wrist towards your elbow. likewise shorter limbs =less torque exerted by weights on muscles.

ok i getcha, seems that tall is good for strongman, and short is good for powerlifters, due to less range than someone with long limbs

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Imagine a plumber with a wrench, trying to lever a nut loose. If it is too tight for him to twist he will slip a pipe on the end. He can then apply the same downward force but because he has increased the length of his lever he has increased the torque at the joint.

torque = (force perpindicular to the lever) x (length of the lever)

Imagine your arm is the wrench, the nut is your shoulder joint for example and the plumber is gravity acting on the barbell you are trying to move. A long arm is the wrench with a peice of pipe slipped on the end.

I don't know if I made your understanding worse. Maybe I could have worded it better.

In the case of where your bicep is attached to your forearm. The shorter you can make your lever the better. So a high attachment is good. Remember you are fighting against gravity by lifting something, not working with it.

Tall is better for strongman and powerlifting (assuming normal proportions) - anything involving strength imo. I'm surprised none of the short guys have spoken up, normally they are pretty vocal.

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SHORT GUY COMING IN!

I completely agree. In fact, I've said it before; taller guys should ideally and logically be stronger. Some people just say shorter levers and shit as an excuse. At the end of the day it's whoever lifts more in these competitions and in strongman, whoever can do it faster/longer.

Plus, the strongmen competitions are fun to watch. The guys are just purely astonishing. Well that's just one short guy opinion

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All the short guys in our gym outsquat the taller ones easy as with the deads as well, bench is around equal. Seems to be the general thing in all gyms ive been to .

There are way too many factors to take in to account. You can't just compare what you have seen at a couple gyms. You eliminate factors like 'how long have they been training', 'what drugs are they taking', 'how deep do they squat' etc by comparing the top athletes in a specific sport.

SHORT GUY COMING IN!

I completely agree. In fact, I've said it before; taller guys should ideally and logically be stronger. Some people just say shorter levers and shit as an excuse. At the end of the day it's whoever lifts more in these competitions and in strongman, whoever can do it faster/longer.

Plus, the strongmen competitions are fun to watch. The guys are just purely astonishing. Well that's just one short guy opinion

I agree. Long arms are only an excuse for a weak bench if they are long relative to your body.

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That's a pretty massive generalisation.. maybe we should do a poll online and work out what the power to height ratio on nzbb is? Then we can put down the elite guys as more relating to genetic predispositions for power.

Height gives an big advantage in strongman because the events are really set up for the taller guys but in PL I don't think so much.

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That's a pretty massive generalisation.. maybe we should do a poll online and work out what the power to height ratio on nzbb is? Then we can put down the elite guys as more relating to genetic predispositions for power.

Height gives an big advantage in strongman because the events are really set up for the taller guys but in PL I don't think so much.

Finally some debate!

Raw WR Deadlift

Benny 6'0

Raw WR Bench

Kennelly 6'2

Raw WR Squat

Malanichev tall!

Like I said before, you can't compare a small sample like all the guys on NZBB. You have to look at the best in the world. Same drugs, regulated depth/form, trained their whole lives etc. There would be a similar number of tall and short guys in the number one spot if they had the same genetic predisposition for power. That's what I'm getting at if you go back to my first post.

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Imagine a plumber with a wrench, trying to lever a nut loose. If it is too tight for him to twist he will slip a pipe on the end. He can then apply the same downward force but because he has increased the length of his lever he has increased the torque at the joint.

torque = (force perpindicular to the lever) x (length of the lever)

Imagine your arm is the wrench, the nut is your shoulder joint for example and the plumber is gravity acting on the barbell you are trying to move. A long arm is the wrench with a peice of pipe slipped on the end.

I don't know if I made your understanding worse. Maybe I could have worded it better.

In the case of where your bicep is attached to your forearm. The shorter you can make your lever the better. So a high attachment is good. Remember you are fighting against gravity by lifting something, not working with it.

Tall is better for strongman and powerlifting (assuming normal proportions) - anything involving strength imo. I'm surprised none of the short guys have spoken up, normally they are pretty vocal.

this is a nice example, but PLers do compound movements which generally require more than one 'lever' so taller guys should be better at isolation movements like curls and shorter dudes better at compound movements due to less range to mass ratio..

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this is a nice example, but PLers do compound movements which generally require more than one 'lever' so taller guys should be better at isolation movements like curls and shorter dudes better at compound movements due to less range to mass ratio..

You still haven't quite got it mate. Short guys appear to have the advantage of being able to shift more weight because of their shorter limbs (for isolation and compound movements, they are equivalent in this respect). In reality this isn't the case. My questions was: why?

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this is a nice example, but PLers do compound movements which generally require more than one 'lever' so taller guys should be better at isolation movements like curls and shorter dudes better at compound movements due to less range to mass ratio..

You still haven't quite got it mate. Short guys appear to have the advantage of being able to shift more weight because of their shorter limbs (for isolation and compound movements, they are equivalent in this respect). In reality this isn't the case. My questions was: why?

I don't think that being short is an advantage as much so as having short limbs. Would be interesting to know the ratios of limb to torso of those WR holders. PL in particular is all about shortening ROM isn't it? I mean what else is the fat gut for? Bahahaha!

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this is a nice example, but PLers do compound movements which generally require more than one 'lever' so taller guys should be better at isolation movements like curls and shorter dudes better at compound movements due to less range to mass ratio..

nope.jpg

in this case the 'levers' (long arms) are working against you. being tall/long arms=harder

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this is a nice example, but PLers do compound movements which generally require more than one 'lever' so taller guys should be better at isolation movements like curls and shorter dudes better at compound movements due to less range to mass ratio..

You still haven't quite got it mate. Short guys appear to have the advantage of being able to shift more weight because of their shorter limbs (for isolation and compound movements, they are equivalent in this respect). In reality this isn't the case. My questions was: why?

I don't think that being short is an advantage as much so as having short limbs. Would be interesting to know the ratios of limb to torso of those WR holders. PL in particular is all about shortening ROM isn't it? I mean what else is the fat gut for? Bahahaha!

You could go in to specific limb ratios but that is kind of deviating from the main argument.

You have two guys (one 5'6 the other 6'2), with identical proportions. Why does the taller guy make faster progress and have a greater ultimate potential than the short guy?

If I tried to answer my own question... I think the advantage of shorter limbs and the advantage of being able to hold more muscle-mass isn't proportional. Shorter limbs do help but being a bigger human being helps more.

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I could be on the wrong track but those guys you mentioned are SHWs right? So naturally they are tall because they can pack the most on their larger frames. If you looked at the lighter weight divisions I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see many 6' + guys in the 60kg division or whatever. The short fullahs would dominate.

Not sure if I'm talking out my ass here, would have to check how tall the winners are in other weight divisions. I imagine the average height would trend downwards through the divisions....be interesting to see.

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this is a nice example, but PLers do compound movements which generally require more than one 'lever' so taller guys should be better at isolation movements like curls and shorter dudes better at compound movements due to less range to mass ratio..

You still haven't quite got it mate. Short guys appear to have the advantage of being able to shift more weight because of their shorter limbs (for isolation and compound movements, they are equivalent in this respect). In reality this isn't the case. My questions was: why?

heres some theoretical shit for you. not sure how relevant:

firstly assume the exact same proportioned physique for this, just scaled down/up in all 3 dimensions. not exactly realistic, but whatever.

first guy: 1.5 m tall

2nd guy: 2.0m tall

if first guy is 60kg then mathematically the 2nd guy is 142kg.

(60kg*(2/1.5)^3)

the small guy has bicep cross sectional area of 100cm^2, forearm length 0.3m

mathematically the big guy has bicep cross sectional area of 178cm^2,

( 100cm^2*(2/1.5)^2)

however his forearm is longer, at 0.4m

(0.3m*(2/1.5))

assuming strength is proportional to muscle CS area, the results of this simple model in terms or torque:

(178/0.4)/(100/0.3)

big guy is 2/1.5 = one and a third times as strong. ie strength~height. but his strength:mass ratio is lower than that of the small guy.

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I could be on the wrong track but those guys you mentioned are SHWs right? So naturally they are tall because they can pack the most on their larger frames. If you looked at the lighter weight divisions I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see many 6' + guys in the 60kg division or whatever. The short fullahs would dominate.

Not sure if I'm talking out my ass here, would have to check how tall the winners are in other weight divisions. I imagine the average height would trend downwards through the divisions....be interesting to see.

Wrong track.

this is a nice example, but PLers do compound movements which generally require more than one 'lever' so taller guys should be better at isolation movements like curls and shorter dudes better at compound movements due to less range to mass ratio..

You still haven't quite got it mate. Short guys appear to have the advantage of being able to shift more weight because of their shorter limbs (for isolation and compound movements, they are equivalent in this respect). In reality this isn't the case. My questions was: why?

heres some theoretical shit for you. not sure how relevant:

firstly assume the exact same proportioned physique for this, just scaled down/up in all 3 dimensions. not exactly realistic, but whatever.

first guy: 1.5 m tall

2nd guy: 2.0m tall

if first guy is 60kg then mathematically the 2nd guy is 142kg.

(60kg*(2/1.5)^3)

the small guy has bicep cross sectional area of 100cm^2, forearm length 0.3m

mathematically the big guy has bicep cross sectional area of 178cm^2,

( 100cm^2*(2/1.5)^2)

however his forearm is longer, at 0.4m

(0.3m*(2/1.5))

assuming strength is proportional to muscle CS area, the results of this simple model in terms or torque:

(178/0.4)/(100/0.3)

big guy is 2/1.5 = one and a third times as strong. ie strength~height. but his strength:mass ratio is lower than that of the small guy.

You can't even roughly approximate an equivalent 2m human by scaling a 1.5m one by (4/3)^3.

Your argument that the strength to mass ratio is smaller for a big person than it is for a small person is common knowledge. It is also irrelevent to what I'm talking about.

Props for remembering to cube the ratio though bro.

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