Strange Pain (HELP!!)

[scrambledeggs]

I've had this problem for almost ten months now. It's pretty weird, I've been to 2 physios and a osteopath for it. I've had a x - ray and ultra scan and still no success in finding the problem.

The pain is in my hip/pelvis area, around the groin/hip flexor. Its on both sides. Its not a sudden pinching pain, its a deep ache. There is only one movement that aggravates it and unfortunately that movement is going below parallel when I squat. But heres the weird part, the pain is only triggered when I keep the arch in my back, if I let my back round (tuck) then there is no pain.

So when this pain happens it usually gets to the point where I can't squat anymore and have to stop for up to a month, sometimes more. Then it usually only takes about a week (3 squat days) to trigger the pain again. This has been going on for ten months and its depressing because before this injury I use to love squatting!

Since the pain started I've worked a lot on my flexibility and have become a lot more flexible. I've also changed my squat technique so that my stance is wider, all in vain because the pain is still recurring :x

So PLEASE if anyone has had similar pains or can help me I would appreciate it a lot! :pray: :pray:

[steak]

Here's Jims details - ask to deal with him for you appointment bro. hes dealt with a lot of powerlifters and Im sure he can sort you out. From our discussions I cant help but feel the others you have seen are missing something. As you know Rach has delat with Jim and found him to be very onto it with effective practices that work.

http://queenstreetchiro.co.nz/

I hope you can get this sorted bro as youve got huge potential :nod:

[lazyeye]

internet advice coming here...warning warning

the fact you can reduce the pain by rounding your back while the hip is flexed sounds like psoas to me.

have you had a 'thomas test' done to assess length of one and two joint hip flexors?

google "active straight leg raise" for a giggle too, the fact its bilateral makes me think it wont show anything but ya never know.

would be interesting to see a squat video as well, if your really quad dominant, it can inhibit the glutes allowing the femur to drift to the front of the hip...which might explain bilateral hip pain....it could be grinding up the front of your hip.

so dunno really, text diagnosis is shit....plenty of shitty physios out there just looking for bulk acc billings to make money. Are you in the waikato? i know a few i trust there

[Gym rat]

Just find a good sports phyiso they might be able to help you out with your strange pain or trip to health 2000 for some joint care supplement made by any brand that is out there.

[musclenz]

Could be sciatica. This is damage to the sciatic nerve that runs down the back of the leg. Generally tho, it only occurs in one leg but it can occur in both. There is a condition known as Priformis Syndrome. This is where the nerve is damaged going thru the piriformis muscle in the glutes. This may be why when you round your lower back it takes the pressure off this part of the muscle. Pain can radiate from the lower spine down the sides of the leg , calf & into the foot & can be sometimes felt as pins & needles or numbness. Hamstring work can agrevate it or indeed most squatting or deadlifting movements. It tends to come & go depending on various factors. You would need to consult a sports physician & get an MRI scan to properly diagnose this. Physio & Chiro can agrevate it from my experience as its not muscular its nerve damage. Deep tissue massage while painful can help release it in the piriformis.

[scrambledeggs]

Here's Jims details - ask to deal with him for you appointment bro. hes dealt with a lot of powerlifters and Im sure he can sort you out. From our discussions I cant help but feel the others you have seen are missing something. As you know Rach has delat with Jim and found him to be very onto it with effective practices that work.

http://queenstreetchiro.co.nz/

I hope you can get this sorted bro as youve got huge potential

Thanks Damo, I gave them a ring and I'm booked in for wednesday, I'll give you the run down after.. hopefully with some good news.

internet advice coming here...warning warning

the fact you can reduce the pain by rounding your back while the hip is flexed sounds like psoas to me.

have you had a 'thomas test' done to assess length of one and two joint hip flexors?

google "active straight leg raise" for a giggle too, the fact its bilateral makes me think it wont show anything but ya never know.

would be interesting to see a squat video as well, if your really quad dominant, it can inhibit the glutes allowing the femur to drift to the front of the hip...which might explain bilateral hip pain....it could be grinding up the front of your hip.

so dunno really, text diagnosis is shit....plenty of shitty physios out there just looking for bulk acc billings to make money. Are you in the waikato? i know a few i trust there

I have had the "Thomas test" done ages ago and since then have loosened my hip flexors up, so I'm pretty sure its not that. Also I've had the active straight leg raise done by numerous physios and it causes no pain.

A osteo thought it could be a Psoas, so he worked on that, it was quite tender but after a few weeks of working on it there was still no improvement on the pain when squatting.

Today in the gym my mate said it could just be a matter of altering my squat technique so that my stance is narrower and I dont point my toes outwards, and instead of sitting right back into my squat, just dropping down, keeping my back neutral and not trying to force an arch. Jaroslaw Olech has this technique and hes a world record holder for squat.

Heres the vid:

When I tried it, I did feel a lot more comfortable. Im going to see Jim from Queens street chiropractors who specialises in weightlifting injuries so fingers crossed he can find the problem.

Thanks heaps for your help and input bro

[lazyeye]

forcing an arch is good beginner advice but fails once you get stronger imo, all that you are doing is riding the bony approximations of your spine for support rather than using abs in anti extension role. lends itself to a buggered back over time

wasnt thinking of the ASLR as a pain test, more to examine if both legs can raise to same height, if they cant its putting a torque through your hips and will bite you on arse, but i would think it would be unilateral pain rather than by lateral.

when i was talking psoas, i meant both the tightness of them (which you say is ok) and the strength....deep in the hole is where you say it hurts and the psoas is the only hip flexor active when your knee is above 90deg. perhaps they have good length but are weak and not stabilising?

your toes should point in the direction of your thighs if your not a competitive powerlifter, its putting a twist through the knee to get a little stability at the detriment of the joint.

to find what stance you should use in the squat, get on all fours and rock back and forward over your heels trying different knee placements, remembering to keep your lower/upper back in a rock solid neutral position throughout. it looks gay as f*ck, but you quickly find the right angle that you can achieve the best depth (with the most ease)

[nate225]

The pain is in my hip/pelvis area, around the groin/hip flexor. Its on both sides. Its not a sudden pinching pain, its a deep ache. There is only one movement that aggravates it and unfortunately that movement is going below parallel when I squat. But heres the weird part, the pain is only triggered when I keep the arch in my back, if I let my back round (tuck) then there is no pain.

Just a random thing worth checking out, its not a hernia of some description?

[musclenz]

The pain is in my hip/pelvis area, around the groin/hip flexor. Its on both sides. Its not a sudden pinching pain, its a deep ache. There is only one movement that aggravates it and unfortunately that movement is going below parallel when I squat. But heres the weird part, the pain is only triggered when I keep the arch in my back, if I let my back round (tuck) then there is no pain.

Just a random thing worth checking out, its not a hernia of some description?

Was my thought as well could be inguinal hernia but normally one side goes then the other side then you complete the hat-trick by getting the umbilical done as well LOL

[scrambledeggs]

Could be sciatica. This is damage to the sciatic nerve that runs down the back of the leg. Generally tho, it only occurs in one leg but it can occur in both. There is a condition known as Priformis Syndrome. This is where the nerve is damaged going thru the piriformis muscle in the glutes. This may be why when you round your lower back it takes the pressure off this part of the muscle. Pain can radiate from the lower spine down the sides of the leg , calf & into the foot & can be sometimes felt as pins & needles or numbness. Hamstring work can agrevate it or indeed most squatting or deadlifting movements. It tends to come & go depending on various factors. You would need to consult a sports physician & get an MRI scan to properly diagnose this. Physio & Chiro can agrevate it from my experience as its not muscular its nerve damage. Deep tissue massage while painful can help release it in the piriformis.

A lady at my gym had piriformis syndrome and I don't think its that but I'll bring up at my chiro appointment see what he says, thanks mate.

forcing an arch is good beginner advice but fails once you get stronger imo, all that you are doing is riding the bony approximations of your spine for support rather than using abs in anti extension role. lends itself to a buggered back over time

wasnt thinking of the ASLR as a pain test, more to examine if both legs can raise to same height, if they cant its putting a torque through your hips and will bite you on arse, but i would think it would be unilateral pain rather than by lateral.

when i was talking psoas, i meant both the tightness of them (which you say is ok) and the strength....deep in the hole is where you say it hurts and the psoas is the only hip flexor active when your knee is above 90deg. perhaps they have good length but are weak and not stabilising?

your toes should point in the direction of your thighs if your not a competitive powerlifter, its putting a twist through the knee to get a little stability at the detriment of the joint.

to find what stance you should use in the squat, get on all fours and rock back and forward over your heels trying different knee placements, remembering to keep your lower/upper back in a rock solid neutral position throughout. it looks gay as f*ck, but you quickly find the right angle that you can achieve the best depth (with the most ease)

I reckon what you said first about the femur grinding the front of my hip could be my problem. How would I go about correcting this?

And thanks nate225 I'll see what the chiro says about a hernia.

[lazyeye]

try working through some glute bridge progressions

if your squatting a bit of weight, perhaps try the "cook hip lift" and compare your left and right sides.

what an easy diagnosis would be is that you feel it in your hamstring rather than glute, which is a easy way to tell if your glute is weak

check this out

http://mattsiniscalchi.wordpress.com/20 ... r-runners/

what i like is the skeletal picture showing what happens with strong hamstrings and a weak glute/psoas. you can see that without both of those firing hard, there is nothing to provide backward pull to the femur in the socket......letting them migrate forward, put a heavy barbell onto back and squat deep = grindtastic

see how you go, i wouldn't goto a chiro though, invariably they will tell you your back is out and it needs adjusting, "it should be fine in a month or two, i will need to see you 3x a week for $80 thanks" when in fact it has nothing to do with back

[scrambledeggs]

try working through some glute bridge progressions

if your squatting a bit of weight, perhaps try the "cook hip lift" and compare your left and right sides.

what an easy diagnosis would be is that you feel it in your hamstring rather than glute, which is a easy way to tell if your glute is weak

check this out

http://mattsiniscalchi.wordpress.com/20 ... r-runners/

what i like is the skeletal picture showing what happens with strong hamstrings and a weak glute/psoas. you can see that without both of those firing hard, there is nothing to provide backward pull to the femur in the socket......letting them migrate forward, put a heavy barbell onto back and squat deep = grindtastic

see how you go, i wouldn't goto a chiro though, invariably they will tell you your back is out and it needs adjusting, "it should be fine in a month or two, i will need to see you 3x a week for $80 thanks" when in fact it has nothing to do with back

Yeah I am aware that chiros can be a bit scammy :? . I found this article and its really helpful http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/noglutes.html

I really am starting to believe that the pain is being caused by my weak glutes because i never have sore glutes after squatting, always hammys and quads. Same for deadlifts. After reading this article it looks like it could be quite likely I have a weak core as well, which would make sense because I haven't done much work on my core.

I think I'm going to start doing 1 legged squats and Hip Extensions for my glutes and some hanging leg raises and good old crunches for the core.

Cheers for the help with this mate! Some great advice

[Big john]

I really am starting to believe that the pain is being caused by my weak glutes because i never have sore glutes after squatting, always hammys and quads. Same for deadlifts. After reading this article it looks like it could be quite likely I have a weak core as well, which would make sense because I haven't done much work on my core.

weak glutes...you havent been pushing enough bush Or Dynamic Duvet Olympic hip thrusts! oh wait, thats right nm! :grin: just kidding young blood :twisted:

Just listenin to the advice of Coach Steak should set you down the right path

[scrambledeggs]

Well I went to the chiro and he says its probably a joint problem :evil: so I'm getting a MRI this month sometime to see exactly what it is.

Thanks for all the help

[steak]

too many joints young fella...lay off the cabbage

srsly though..glad you finally found out what it is....now you just gotta sort it :roll:

[thatwaslight]

[scrambledeggs]

Jesus! :shock: Thats almost as strange as my pain

[gringo]

When you squat do you look straight ahead or do you look up. I had pain for a long time but it was due to technique. Do you have this pain when you deadlift(if you do). If you do when you are in top position make sure you back is not arched and your pelvis is tucked under making your back flat. Hope that makes sense. You may just need to strengthen your lower back with hyperextensions or similiar.

[scrambledeggs]

When you squat do you look straight ahead or do you look up. I had pain for a long time but it was due to technique. Do you have this pain when you deadlift(if you do). If you do when you are in top position make sure you back is not arched and your pelvis is tucked under making your back flat. Hope that makes sense. You may just need to strengthen your lower back with hyperextensions or similiar.

Na i dont get any pain when deadlifting at all. I think ive just aggravated the joints with my technique, so when im all pain free and fixed im going to squat straight down instead of over emphasizing the sitting back movement. cheers