Should I Cycle?

[langerrox]

WANNABJ is still around?

[Specter]

WANNABJ is still around?

He never left :grin:

[HarryB]

WANNABJ is still around?

He never left :grin:

Can't call it a comeback, he's been here for years lol...

This thread is just a pisstake isn't it?

I mean you brought your gear and now you want to know whether or not to use... I have a 6 pack of beers I bought 10 years ago, my mate told me I would get erectile dysfunction and kidney and liver issues if I drank it so I put it in the fridge... thank god for his sage advice!!!

[DANIEL8]

I thought it might be a bad decision to cycle because of my age.

But like I said, I want the best results possible for my upcoming bulk, and if I can bounce back perfectly after PCT then I'd see no risk in cycling now.

Agree? Disagree?

iv done 3 cycles and im under 20... do it bro

[Lurker]

If your young, already a decent size, still growing and haven't hit any plateaus yet, I'd wait a while and do it for better reasons rather than vanity coupled with impatience and trying to do some kind of superbulk to get huge right now.

[WANABJAKD]

WANNABJ is still around?

He never left :grin:

affirmative.

I mean you brought your gear and now you want to know whether or not to use...

...almost as good as "ive bought my gear, now what do i do with it?"

[Specter]

WANNABJ is still around?

He never left :grin:

affirmative.

I mean you brought your gear and now you want to know whether or not to use...

...almost as good as "ive bought my gear, now what do i do with it?"

^^^PURE f*cktard IF SOMEONE HAS DONE THAT^^^

[severe]

Confused at what? There is Preaching and their is offloading your opinions...the dude wants simple advice...not a lecture and 1000 word essay...

Then he can tell me to piss off. But he isn't, because I wasn't offloading shit.

I was told the negatives before I started. Just sharing teh love, but I was still non judgmental.

iv done 3 cycles and im under 20... do it bro

I often wonder how I would be now if I had access to them then. I used to buy the Weider magazines and dream about aas. I started at mid 30's.

[WANABJAKD]

He never left :grin:

affirmative.

I mean you brought your gear and now you want to know whether or not to use...

...almost as good as "ive bought my gear, now what do i do with it?"

^^^PURE f*cktard IF SOMEONE HAS DONE THAT^^^

hey, dont make fun of me :oops:

jk :shifty:

:pfft: :pfft:

[snoopy]

Thanks Psuedonym.

I've already got my gear on hand. I just need to get my hands on some Nolva then I'll be ready to start.

My plan is to cycle for this next bulk and then think about cutting further down the road. I don't want to cut first, my goal is to hit 120kg by the end of September so I want to gain asap.

Cheers 8)

Why Nolvadex? Arimidex is a beter option and easier to find, the hardest to find being Chlomid.

However, for a lot of people PCT dosent help all that much as its dependent on the person.

Also, Nolvadex is known to raise cholesterol levels.

Keep in mind that for a month after you cease the gear it will still be in your system and your testosterone will gradually decrease after this period.

Also, test your FSH and LSH before embarking on your gear fest, along with your fasting glucose, lipids, total testosterone (always total) and cholesterol.

Front loading with tabs isn't necessary, you will feel the effects from Enanthate at around week 3, usually coupled with chronic wanking and visits to the video shop with a trolley on dollar thursdays, and trips to A and E to get your piece gauze wrapped.

Always practise safe needle practise (If you drop it on the carpet do NOT blow on it and think its all gravy)

and use two needles as the first needle will be blunted by the rubber stopper.

I would suggest you cycle down your dose rather than use PCT afterwards, and also I think sustanon 250 is a beter option (sustanon 100 by Organon is no longer available).

Save your Methandrostenolone for a different cycle combined with Deca Durabolin and Sustanon.

Also, if you gain 6kg's of pure muscle in a year with or without gear your freaking lucky. Bloat wont show as a higher body fat reading but its still just excessive water retention.

Not all drugs work for all people, some people get 'superman syndrome' of sustanon, some dont.

Anxiety, excessive insomnia, dry bowel, aggitation, delerium, excessive aggression, impatience and impotence are some of the symptoms and signs of a drug dosen't suit you. Dont be a dick and continue using the drug, use an alternative or deriative and learn from the experience.

Your behaviour changes may be non-existant but they could be larger on scale, if they start to affect those around you i.e. family members and girlfriends dont be selfish and ignore it, your loved ones are more important than anything else on this earth in the short time that your here.

And banging ugly chicks cause your 'on the gear' isnt a valid excuse.

[train hard]

Have you ever taken steroids Snoopy?

[snoopy]

No but i've just read some material like body opus, the underground steroid hand book and many others.

I currently have a book from the banned book list however it is out-dated (It lists drugs such as Finajet and Stromba) and I also have some material on the hepa-toxic Anadrol 50, the book is titled 'Gain 15kg's in a week and drop dead' It was a popular read in the eighties.

What has always surprised me is the body builders of the eighties whom people thought were 'clean' for years because of the aesthetic appeal like Bob Paris for instance. A book titled 'life in a gorrila suit' is by Bob Paris and it goes in depth about his drug use.

Although he was 6'1 and 108 kg's off season, he was using around 5grams a week plus GH... just goes to show you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear... His best upper arm measurement was 18.3 inches and his quads never eclipsed 28 inches.

[Kracka]

Has anyone ever seen before shots of the likes of Cutler and Yates? Skinny dudes.

I was/am a mesomorph in the main. Built 27 inch thighs on 5'8" frame in my teens early twenties all completely natural. I regularly squatted 150kg for reps when I was just 17 years old.

But I started following the Weider routines in muscle and fitness. Little did I know that the pros were taken every drug under the son which allowed them to grow on their 6 days per week 20 sets per body part routines. Needless to say I stopped making progress.

Cutler and Yates and a LOT of other top bodybuiders of yesteryear and today had/have the same or less natural genetic potential than your average school boy rugby player you see running around on a saturday morning in New Zealand.

Thru sheer dedication, hard work, single-mindedness and a SHITLOAD of drugs - they became superstars.

I say: good on Cutler and Yates. Theyre doing what the wanted to do, enhanced with AAS and whom the f*ck is anyone to tell them they should/shouldn't have taken gear?

Now - I din't take my first drugs until I was 39. And in that instance it was just some dbol with a little nolva after the dbul ran out.

I then repeated it a couple years later.

I got good results both times considering dbol only cycles are frowned upon usually as a waste of time - well they weren't for me.

Why did I wait so long before taking any drug? Because I was BRAINWASHED by the absolute fucking crap you hear and read about Steroids in the media.

The Ben Johnson fiasco really started it where mainstream people were told how BAD steroids are.

Basically I stopped training for 15 years due to a number of factors, most of them my own fault- but one of them being that I became disolussioned with the Iron Game because I was convinced that all my heroes were going to end up dead and I didn't want to be one of them - because I had learned the "truth" that all the stars I read about in Muscle and Fitness were on the gear.

What a fucking waste of my potential. I could have been on a "controlled" programme of AAS from my early twenties and seen where my "potental" could have taken me. Or I could have remained natural and kept training too - that is my own fault because I had other "personal" problems in my life that took me away from training - to be truthful about it.

As per an earlier thread I started - I am about to start a "proper" cycle for the first time and see where it takes me. The fact I have to do it all in secret, go to a needle exchange etc etc is a fact of life but it just sucks. I cant help thinking I could go to the pub on a Friday night, down a liquid "drug" in the order of 10 beers or whatever, get a taxi home (something I have done pelnty of times) and I am not a criminal - jsut a schlub with a hangover and a headache - but if I got caught with a vial of test-e because I want to physically take my body to places its never been before, I'd be classifed as a crim.

Sometimes the world is just a fucking stupid place.

Here is what I think of a young 20 odd years old guy that wants to do gear: Do it, but do it controlled - see what it does for you and see if you can live a normally healthy fulfilling life while partaking in what the general population considers a shady occupation no better (in their mind) than the local riff-raff that populate dark alleyways on a dark night.

[Daz69]

Why Nolvadex? Arimidex is a beter option and easier to find, the hardest to find being Clomid.

Depends what he wants Noladex for? If he wants it for PCT then its ok...

Arimidex is an AI.......

However, for a lot of people PCT dosent help all that much as its dependent on the person.

I think its dependent on the dose of gear you use & the correct PCT you select..

Also, Nolvadex is known to raise cholesterol levels.

Keep in mind that for a month after you cease the gear it will still be in your system and your testosterone will gradually decrease after this period.

Oh will it..??? The Testosterone will release & begin to half life from the moment you inject it (after receptor site shite) 5.25 days for Enanthate...

Also, test your FSH and LSH before embarking on your gear fest, along with your fasting glucose, lipids, total testosterone (always total) and cholesterol.

Front loading with tabs isn't necessary, you will feel the effects from Enanthate at around week 3

No reason you can't front load, the effects of Dbol will be almost immediate, so will the mental effects of the Enanthate....

usually coupled with chronic wanking and visits to the video shop with a trolley on dollar thursdays, and trips to A and E to get your piece gauze wrapped.

Always practise safe needle practise (If you drop it on the carpet do NOT blow on it and think its all gravy)

and use two needles as the first needle will be blunted by the rubber stopper.

I would suggest you cycle down your dose rather than use PCT afterwards,

Just by coming off, the way Enanthate half lifes every 5.25 days it cycles down itself....

and also I think sustanon 250 is a better option

Why..? Its expensive, & unless you pin EOD its a pain in the arse with fluctuations in blood levels.... More balanced to pin Test E every 5 days...

(sustanon 100 by Organon is no longer available).

Save your Methandrostenolone for a different cycle combined with Deca Durabolin and Sustanon.

Test E-Deca-Dbol will give you good size gains.....

Also, if you gain 6kg's of pure muscle in a year with or without gear your freaking lucky. Bloat wont show as a higher body fat reading but its still just excessive water retention.

Not all drugs work for all people, some people get 'superman syndrome' of sustanon, some dont.

Anxiety, excessive insomnia, dry bowel, aggitation, delerium, excessive aggression, impatience and impotence are some of the symptoms and signs of a drug dosen't suit you. Dont be a dick and continue using the drug, use an alternative or deriative and learn from the experience.

Your behaviour changes may be non-existant but they could be larger on scale, if they start to affect those around you i.e. family members and girlfriends dont be selfish and ignore it, your loved ones are more important than anything else on this earth in the short time that your here.

And banging ugly chicks cause your 'on the gear' isnt a valid excuse.

The side effects of gear are dose/people dependent 250/500mg of test shouldn't have a many (if any).... It has been My Personal Experience that the more compounds you introduce, the more side effects you get, its easy to get into the mind frame of more is best & keep increasing the doses (and increasing the side effects) Selecting certain compounds that work synergistically with each other at sensible doses is the way forward.... This is a great site with a wealth of knowledge others are prepared to share.... Its all here, you just have to find it.. (or ask)..

[snoopy]

Why Nolvadex? Arimidex is a beter option and easier to find, the hardest to find being Clomid.

Depends what he wants Noladex for? If he wants it for PCT then its ok...

Arimidex is an AI.......

However, for a lot of people PCT dosent help all that much as its dependent on the person.

I think its dependent on the dose of gear you use & the correct PCT you select..

Also, Nolvadex is known to raise cholesterol levels.

Keep in mind that for a month after you cease the gear it will still be in your system and your testosterone will gradually decrease after this period.

Oh will it..??? The Testosterone will release & begin to half life from the moment you inject it (after receptor site shite) 5.25 days for Enanthate...

Also, test your FSH and LSH before embarking on your gear fest, along with your fasting glucose, lipids, total testosterone (always total) and cholesterol.

Front loading with tabs isn't necessary, you will feel the effects from Enanthate at around week 3

No reason you can't front load, the effects of Dbol will be almost immediate, so will the mental effects of the Enanthate....

usually coupled with chronic wanking and visits to the video shop with a trolley on dollar thursdays, and trips to A and E to get your piece gauze wrapped.

Always practise safe needle practise (If you drop it on the carpet do NOT blow on it and think its all gravy)

and use two needles as the first needle will be blunted by the rubber stopper.

I would suggest you cycle down your dose rather than use PCT afterwards,

Just by coming off, the way Enanthate half lifes every 5.25 days it cycles down itself....

and also I think sustanon 250 is a better option

Why..? Its expensive, & unless you pin EOD its a pain in the arse with fluctuations in blood levels.... More balanced to pin Test E every 5 days...

(sustanon 100 by Organon is no longer available).

Save your Methandrostenolone for a different cycle combined with Deca Durabolin and Sustanon.

Test E-Deca-Dbol will give you good size gains.....

Also, if you gain 6kg's of pure muscle in a year with or without gear your freaking lucky. Bloat wont show as a higher body fat reading but its still just excessive water retention.

Not all drugs work for all people, some people get 'superman syndrome' of sustanon, some dont.

Anxiety, excessive insomnia, dry bowel, aggitation, delerium, excessive aggression, impatience and impotence are some of the symptoms and signs of a drug dosen't suit you. Dont be a dick and continue using the drug, use an alternative or deriative and learn from the experience.

Your behaviour changes may be non-existant but they could be larger on scale, if they start to affect those around you i.e. family members and girlfriends dont be selfish and ignore it, your loved ones are more important than anything else on this earth in the short time that your here.

And banging ugly chicks cause your 'on the gear' isnt a valid excuse.

The side effects of gear are dose/people dependent 250/500mg of test shouldn't have a many (if any).... It has been My Personal Experience that the more compounds you introduce, the more side effects you get, its easy to get into the mind frame of more is best & keep increasing the doses (and increasing the side effects) Selecting certain compounds that work synergistically with each other at sensible doses is the way forward.... This is a great site with a wealth of knowledge others are prepared to share.... Its all here, you just have to find it.. (or ask)..

I found your feed-back quite interesting but I hold my own views on certain things.

My understanding is that Sustanon was made with the intention to yield an even blood testosterone level rapidly, yet for a prolonged period of time.

All things aside I think the most important thing for a young novice to do is have his re-productive profile taken before and after as I have been aware of some people who have used gear for pro-longed periods of time in their early years, and when they have tried to have children later in life they found they were infertile. Whether or not this was because of the gear is debatable, however it is a fact that surpressing your system at a young age could interfere with development and sexual maturiy.

It may not seem very important when your young, but you'll regret it later if you dont.

Also, whats with the Enanthate love over here? Is Cypionate not available?

[snoopy]

Has anyone ever seen before shots of the likes of Cutler and Yates? Skinny dudes.

I was/am a mesomorph in the main. Built 27 inch thighs on 5'8" frame in my teens early twenties all completely natural. I regularly squatted 150kg for reps when I was just 17 years old.

But I started following the Weider routines in muscle and fitness. Little did I know that the pros were taken every drug under the son which allowed them to grow on their 6 days per week 20 sets per body part routines. Needless to say I stopped making progress.

Cutler and Yates and a LOT of other top bodybuiders of yesteryear and today had/have the same or less natural genetic potential than your average school boy rugby player you see running around on a saturday morning in New Zealand.

Thru sheer dedication, hard work, single-mindedness and a SHITLOAD of drugs - they became superstars.

I say: good on Cutler and Yates. Theyre doing what the wanted to do, enhanced with AAS and whom the f*ck is anyone to tell them they should/shouldn't have taken gear?

Now - I din't take my first drugs until I was 39. And in that instance it was just some dbol with a little nolva after the dbul ran out.

I then repeated it a couple years later.

I got good results both times considering dbol only cycles are frowned upon usually as a waste of time - well they weren't for me.

Why did I wait so long before taking any drug? Because I was BRAINWASHED by the absolute fucking crap you hear and read about Steroids in the media.

The Ben Johnson fiasco really started it where mainstream people were told how BAD steroids are.

Basically I stopped training for 15 years due to a number of factors, most of them my own fault- but one of them being that I became disolussioned with the Iron Game because I was convinced that all my heroes were going to end up dead and I didn't want to be one of them - because I had learned the "truth" that all the stars I read about in Muscle and Fitness were on the gear.

What a fucking waste of my potential. I could have been on a "controlled" programme of AAS from my early twenties and seen where my "potental" could have taken me. Or I could have remained natural and kept training too - that is my own fault because I had other "personal" problems in my life that took me away from training - to be truthful about it.

As per an earlier thread I started - I am about to start a "proper" cycle for the first time and see where it takes me. The fact I have to do it all in secret, go to a needle exchange etc etc is a fact of life but it just sucks. I cant help thinking I could go to the pub on a Friday night, down a liquid "drug" in the order of 10 beers or whatever, get a taxi home (something I have done pelnty of times) and I am not a criminal - jsut a schlub with a hangover and a headache - but if I got caught with a vial of test-e because I want to physically take my body to places its never been before, I'd be classifed as a crim.

Sometimes the world is just a fucking stupid place.

Here is what I think of a young 20 odd years old guy that wants to do gear: Do it, but do it controlled - see what it does for you and see if you can live a normally healthy fulfilling life while partaking in what the general population considers a shady occupation no better (in their mind) than the local riff-raff that populate dark alleyways on a dark night.

Yates was skinny, but Cutler always had a frame didnt he? Did you read the article on T-Nation regarding Steve Michalic of the eighties, he reckons he would pay uni students to extract GH from cadavers (dead bodies) for himself, and also he would take it out of the monkeys in the labs.

Do you also remember Dave Passanella? Dude died in a car accident before he reached his potential but there is a pic of him at 28 looking forty... He is rumored to have stared at 13 as when he was playing American football the coach told him in order to reach his potential he needed to 'Eat his vitamins'

and would supply him with the pink candy...

I've got a book on how Arnold started at 15 and would entertain older gentleman at the local bathhouse for money.

What always makes me laugh is when people say, 'He got big first, then he used steroids' HAHAHA!!!

[Kracka]

Yeah OK - cutler did have some sort of "base" to work off as you can see from the pics below. But there are upteen millions of people with this type of build at a young age and you wouldn't say he is anything out of this world as far as potential went - but yeah ok he had a good base to work on.

[Kracka]

Here is a teenage Yates

[severe]

puberty starts earlier in girls than boys, and lasts a similar timeframe in each.

Boys end up taller because they had reached a higher natural height before the hormones kicked in.

Perhaps this works with aas hormones as well? Achieving a higher natural peak before aas 'may' result in a higher end point.

No way to know though, unless you experiment on identical twins, starting one at 18, and another at 28. Or triplets at 18, 28, 38.

Still, I am neither for nor against a younger starting age as I made my decision to be later purely because I did not have the access to them younger, and had to get over my needle phobia.

[snoopy]

puberty starts earlier in girls than boys, and lasts a similar timeframe in each.

Boys end up taller because they had reached a higher natural height before the hormones kicked in.

Perhaps this works with aas hormones as well? Achieving a higher natural peak before aas 'may' result in a higher end point.

No way to know though, unless you experiment on identical twins, starting one at 18, and another at 28. Or triplets at 18, 28, 38.

Still, I am neither for nor against a younger starting age as I made my decision to be later purely because I did not have the access to them younger, and had to get over my needle phobia.

With you there!!!! I am aware of someone who (I shit you not) got 1 inch in height after his first cycle and .4 of an inch on his wrists and he started at 20.

This someone was offered AAS at 15 by a endocrinologist as the specialist said it was either that or be a late developer and finish growth at 24 to 26 years of age.

[snoopy]

Yeah OK - cutler did have some sort of "base" to work off as you can see from the pics below. But there are upteen millions of people with this type of build at a young age and you wouldn't say he is anything out of this world as far as potential went - but yeah ok he had a good base to work on.

Holy crap for Cutler!!! I take that back, the earliest photo of Cutler I have till now is nineteen... He was skinny. And Yates was a runt.

[Daz69]

I found your feed-back quite interesting but I hold my own views on certain things.

My understanding is that Sustanon was made with the intention to yield an even blood testosterone level rapidly, yet for a prolonged period of time.

All things aside I think the most important thing for a young novice to do is have his re-productive profile taken before and after as I have been aware of some people who have used gear for pro-longed periods of time in their early years, and when they have tried to have children later in life they found they were infertile. Whether or not this was because of the gear is debatable, however it is a fact that surpressing your system at a young age could interfere with development and sexual maturiy.

It may not seem very important when your young, but you'll regret it later if you dont.

Also, whats with the Enanthate love over here? Is Cypionate not available?

My understanding is that Sustanon was made with the intention to yield an even blood testosterone level rapidly, yet for a prolonged period of time.

That was my understanding of sustanon also..

I took Sustanon & Deca for the best part of 12 years...

It had been explained (wrongly) that:

Propionate half lifed at 2 days

Phenylpropionate 4.5 days

Isocaprote 9 days

Decanoate 15 days

supposedly giving a steady release over the month........

There seems to be conflicting medical data on the true value of ester half lives...

I now believe these to be correct:

30mg Propionate (2.25 days)

60mg Phenylpropionate (2.25 days)

60mg Isocaprote (4.5 days)

100mg Decanoate (7.5 days)

Assuming they start releasing into the blood at the same time & half lifing at their appropriate times, blood levels should be reducing by about 10mg EOD up to day 7.....

Hence its more appropriate to be pinning EOD to keep blood levels steady.....

It's a pain in the arse when the data you rely on is in question...

Also, whats with the Enanthate love over here? Is Cypionate not available?

He mentioned Test E, so I thought it appropriate to comment on what he had...... But yes we do have Cypionate... :pfft:

[severe]

When referring to height, it was in the context of puberty hormones. The idea I had for that was to compare the different base lines of height when compared to the end of height growth, between males and females.

The AAS side of the issue would be from a mass point of view.

The person you knew must have felt elated at having gained an inch in height.

I was wondering whether starting young vs older could effect the individuals 'final gain' level.

Would starting younger ensure better gains due to the time spent on them (over a 20 year period for an example) or would having a better natural base ensure that the growth you get takes you further?

That was my curiosity behind the puberty references. No firm answers expected.

You couldn't rely on word of mouth, or even individuals results I don't think, unless it is measured against DNA identical people. Just a thought.

[snoopy]

I found your feed-back quite interesting but I hold my own views on certain things.

My understanding is that Sustanon was made with the intention to yield an even blood testosterone level rapidly, yet for a prolonged period of time.

All things aside I think the most important thing for a young novice to do is have his re-productive profile taken before and after as I have been aware of some people who have used gear for pro-longed periods of time in their early years, and when they have tried to have children later in life they found they were infertile. Whether or not this was because of the gear is debatable, however it is a fact that surpressing your system at a young age could interfere with development and sexual maturiy.

It may not seem very important when your young, but you'll regret it later if you dont.

Also, whats with the Enanthate love over here? Is Cypionate not available?

My understanding is that Sustanon was made with the intention to yield an even blood testosterone level rapidly, yet for a prolonged period of time.

That was my understanding of sustanon also..

I took Sustanon & Deca for the best part of 12 years...

It had been explained (wrongly) that:

Propionate half lifed at 2 days

Phenylpropionate 4.5 days

Isocaprote 9 days

Decanoate 15 days

supposedly giving a steady release over the month........

There seems to be conflicting medical data on the true value of ester half lives...

I now believe these to be correct:

30mg Propionate (2.25 days)

60mg Phenylpropionate (2.25 days)

60mg Isocaprote (4.5 days)

100mg Decanoate (7.5 days)

Assuming they start releasing into the blood at the same time & half lifing at their appropriate times, blood levels should be reducing by about 10mg EOD up to day 7.....

Hence its more appropriate to be pinning EOD to keep blood levels steady.....

It's a pain in the arse when the data you rely on is in question...

Also, whats with the Enanthate love over here? Is Cypionate not available?

He mentioned Test E, so I thought it appropriate to comment on what he had...... But yes we do have Cypionate... :pfft:

Thats quite interesting about the sustanon, you have a good point.

So I wonder... its used all the time in HRT or hormone replacement therapy though, a common dose is 1ml every three weeks (thats what a family member was given by an endocrinologist) so do you think the medical community is still researching this stuff or has become complacent??

[dannyjay]

Aight guys, thought I'd put an update on here

Started my cycle 3 weeks ago

I'm now weighing in at 110kg/242lbs

The Test is just starting to kick in now. First noticed it while doing squats. My quads felt like they were tensing a lot harder, and strength has improved slightly also.

The dbol is also working nicely and doing it's job.

I reckon it's putting an extra 1kg of weight onto me per week.

Haven't had any side effects. Had a few zits on my face after a couple days on dbol but it's settled down now, and skin is looking pretty clear.

The main thing I've noticed is that sex drive has increased like crazy.

I'd hit almost anything atm haha.