Jump to content

sheiko.... SHEIKO!... cheeko!


tomsammce

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I have never tried Sheiko bro. But I know that the likes of Tonka and Stephen Prichard are also big believers as well as many at CBC and PH. I don't know that much about it but it obviously works.

I must admit I was (still am) a bit ignorant about Sheiko and had this view that it was for advanced lifters who had been under the bar for a while and had found their weight class and who didn't have any glaring deficiencies in their physique. Very few weak points in other words. However as OB has pointed out, Sheiko 29 is designed for less experienced lifters.

Sheiko became a necessity as a training template after I became a solo trainer towards the end of 08 as my training partners either retired or moved on. By following this regime it allowed me to do so safely on my own both RAW and when I was required to train in equipment. I have made progressive gains in the squat and deadlift but I think this is primarily due to the increased full ROM movements (which OB has pointed out) which in turn highlighted technical issues that I have been able to address and improve on. For the bench press, I would say that it suffered somewhat due to low volume and low intensity levels that I wasnt accustomed too (and a concrete pole but thats another story... :pfft: ).

I would still recommend the Sheiko templates to newbies if they were looking for something with structure and clear direction but heed with caution. Listen to your body and allow for recovery and rest when its needed. Ideally, if you have come from a background where you have reasonable conditioning (ie active sportsmen/women) or may have been lifting weights for many years building a solid training foundation to launch off then that would be even better still! But with this type of conditioning, any pure strength training template would be a good start for you.

On a side note - 3 years on Ive been able to change my training template again to something I had great success with and the main reason for this is having training partners back in my corner (especially when it comes to benching). I incorperate several methodologies with one big change and that being a Sheiko only day for my squats (previously I used WSB max squat days ). My current program is a mix of Metal Militia (Heavy bench - huge volume and intensity both RAW and shirted); Shieko (Heavy squat day - RAW and Equipped work); WSB (dynamic bench/deadlift - lots of speed), and finally Linear (Heavy Deadlift - Medium volume). Another big change has been a reduction in squat/deadlifting days where I only squat and deadlift once during the week now. The main reason being full recovery which I am hoping will lead to longevity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So do sheiko trainers use bands and chains etc in thier programs?

They can. Chains are listed as an option in Sheiko's book.

You don't see them in the example templates, but if you go to Youtube and look for Wade Hooper, you can find videos of him using chains in a Sheiko setup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

great read, thanks.

Cheers Tom

Great read Warren. One question I have about Sheiko. Do you actually get stronger following Sheiko or do you just get technically better at the movements?

Thanks Doc,

In the beginning your gains come from the Technical side as you get more efficent then the strength gains come. What happens with most % based programmes is that lifters tend to put a percieved 1RM in. Sheiko gives you a 2 - 2.5% increase over a 12 week cycle on Squats and Deads and a 1-1-5% increase in the Bench.

To some this is not enough, but because of the low training % you can train all year round, giving you 4 x 12 week cycles with a gain of just under 10% for the year on Squat and Dead. Which as you know is pretty good when you are at the top of your game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that OB, I've done a little reading on Sheiko but having that description put together in one place is great :nod:

Cheers Phedder

I must admit I was (still am) a bit ignorant about Sheiko and had this view that it was for advanced lifters who had been under the bar for a while and had found their weight class and who didn't have any glaring deficiencies in their physique. Very few weak points in other words. However as OB has pointed out, Sheiko 29 is designed for less experienced lifters.

You're actually right. Ever since the Soviet days, Russia's had a very good talent selection and development program that identifies these kids at a young age and pushes a more well-rounded fitness program through childhood and adolescence. They don't begin specializing -- which is where you'd see the "beginner" templates come into the picture -- until relatively later in life, after years of physical activity.

Sheiko says that his novices start out at 13-15 years old doing nothing but playing around with technique, and they're encouraged to play other sports. The Russian methodology in general isn't big on specializing too early, precisely because it leads to imbalances.

Only later do you see the templates that we're familiar with introduced, once the lifters have nailed technique and have established RM numbers to plan from.

Beginner in Russian terms means "beginner to powerlifting", not "beginner to training". A Russian kid who's grown up active and well-rounded isn't quite the same thing as your regular gym-junkie who decides to take the 29 for a one or two month ride. Westerners don't have the context of the Russian athletes.

Good post PMan, :clap: thats where you get their Athletes or lifters starting a lot later in age than say western Athletes (College then Olympics). They seem to have a longer shelf life to, from the (not specializing too early, precisely because it leads to imbalances.) .

We see it here where a rounded athlete comes in and gets really big gains in PL style lifts as opposed to FOB who takes a couple of years to get the same sort of gains.

We do not have that base work ethic, where these programmes go very well, nor do we have the Skill Factor. Sheiko like most low intensity high volume cycles, needs 18 months to 2 years to start getting the real good benefits, understanding yourself, the system and how the cycle works best for you. Which for a lot of trainers is a life time, most think it is a Sprint sport, but it is a Marathon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We see it here where a rounded athlete comes in and gets really big gains in PL style lifts as opposed to FOB who takes a couple of years to get the same sort of gains.

We do not have that base work ethic, where these programmes go very well, nor do we have the Skill Factor. Sheiko like most low intensity high volume cycles, needs 18 months to 2 years to start getting the real good benefits, understanding yourself, the system and how the cycle works best for you. Which for a lot of trainers is a life time, most think it is a Sprint sport, but it is a Marathon.

This is a great point.

I'm in the Doc's camp here, because I think even the beginner Sheiko templates are probably too complicated for most coming in fresh without a reasonable strength level. I can't really toss out hard numbers but you'd want to have a decent strength base before committing to complex training programs.

That's not because the training is too much, mind you, but because beginners can actually get stronger faster than Sheiko (or any periodized workout) allows. That seems to be a common belief that complex is better, but if you think about it, the whole point of messing around with volume and intensity is putting the brakes on progress while letting a more advanced lifter scratch out improvements.

When cycling you test what, every eight weeks? 12? And you'll get a few percent on your max for that time. A beginner should be able to show up and get a good 6 months to a year's worth of "throw more weight on the bar" training. Show up, lift more than last time, get stronger. There's no reason a beginner couldn't be throwing on anywhere from 2.5 to 10kg a week (depending on the lift etc) and keeping up that rate of gain. That's as fast as progress gets.

Stronger lifters benefit from cycling through periodized programs because they benefit from percent-based work, and they won't get far with "add more weight" progressive overload. When beginners copy the more complex programs, they're actually limiting their own progress to what the program allows, rather than what they could handle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect Sheiko would best suit those who are at an advanced level. Obviously difficult to put a number on this like Matt says. But I suppose my concern would be that there are a lot of people following Sheiko templates who maybe shouldn't be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 thing I might add is that when test day rolls around and the template suggests 102% or 104% we dont always follow that. Use the opener for a start then we let the lifter feel it out for themselves a fair bit keeping in mind we'd like to see a successful lift with good form.

Im sure at a higher level of strength and competence the 102% and 104% would be more closely adhered too

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect Sheiko would best suit those who are at an advanced level. Obviously difficult to put a number on this like Matt says. But I suppose my concern would be that there are a lot of people following Sheiko templates who maybe shouldn't be?

ive played a bit with sheiko, and i wanna chime in here..

yes, if you are still in a stage of lifting where you can still periodise on a 2-4 week basis, ie beginner, then you will gain faster on say, 5x5 than the progression of sheiko. BUT:

some of the reasons that lifters dont get the desired results from stuff like 5x5 is that alot of peeps simply fail to apply the directives of the programmes - take a guy with a head full of broscience and give him madcows to follow, he will end up selling the programme short because he doesnt know himself well enough.

I like sheiko for relatively new lifters (like myself) because it has the key components to all proven strenght programmes

*plenty of volume

*periodisation

* room for regulation (see below)

personally i consider it the best RAW strength template out there. but not for geared, there are better geared progs out there.

negatives with sheiko : you need to have your form on the big3 at a level good enough to survive the volume without reinforcing bad habits. this is also because if you set your 1RM's with shitty form, your percentages will be wrong with your sub90% form. so form being consistent is the biggest thing!

repitition - sheiko can get boring, lotsa volume on the most basic lifts. but it fucking works.

regulation - alot of people bitch about the lack of regulation in sheiko - all sets and reps are predetermined. If you didnt sleep and feel like crap, sheiko dont care. just do the sets and reps.

but this is untrue, there are lots of ways to regulate sheiko. here are some

-using/not using a belt/wraps/wrist wraps

- pausing/not pausing bench & deads

if you miss reps on sheiko, you have either set maxes wrong or have had a big fail in your prep: sleep/diet etc

also you can gain alot off sheiko as a newbie - if you do it properly. countless people at cbc, myself included gain alot more than 5%. i got 10kg on my shitty bench in 4 weeks on the russian bench cycle, without peaking.

sheiko fo'life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you not find it boring using lower weight for a large period of time?

not really, its the lack of variation that gets boring. plus sheiko works by accumulating fatigue, so that by the time you get to week 3 (for example) your cns is not fully recovered from the volume its done, so the weights will 'feel' heavier than they normally would. but still the sets and reps are never out of reach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So over one cycle how much of it is spent at the business end 80-90%?

depends which cycle you are doing. the most common/standard prep template is #37, some others like #30 work at slightly higher %, but generally most of the work falls between 70-80 %

usually you run either 1 or 2 'prep' blocks in a row, each block is 4 weeks long. then to deaload and peak, you would run #32. so if you wanted to do an 8 weeker, youd run 37,32. or a 12weeker could be 29,37,32 etc.

sheiko 37

you keen or trollin brah?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TWL raises a good point about spending time at the 80-90% range. The technique of a 60% is completley different to that of a 90% squat. Obviously a lifter cannot spend too long at those percentages.

For myself and my training ( i follow a more traditional linear periodisation strucutre) I cycle heavy assistance work ala west side to work on technique at heavy % for different movements.

This is the problem I see in sheiko ( excuse my ignorance ) is that everything is so preprogrammed that if an individual needs to work on technical or other aspects of lifting then there is no room on the template for this? and that this can lead to a lifter being reliant on a program to fix their problems rather than being able to adapt the program around their body

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TWL raises a good point about spending time at the 80-90% range. The technique of a 60% is completley different to that of a 90% squat. Obviously a lifter cannot spend too long at those percentages.

For myself and my training ( i follow a more traditional linear periodisation strucutre) I cycle heavy assistance work ala west side to work on technique at heavy % for different movements.

This is the problem I see in sheiko ( excuse my ignorance ) is that everything is so preprogrammed that if an individual needs to work on technical or other aspects of lifting then there is no room on the template for this? and that this can lead to a lifter being reliant on a program to fix their problems rather than being able to adapt the program around their body

valid point.

thats why i mentioned the problem with people setting 1rms with bro-form, and then doing the lower%work tidy. i dont reckon sheiko is suitable year-round, should be cycled with other principals (westside, ME/DE etc) as you mention. i guess it comes down to the lifter being honest with themselves when setting their comp grade 1rm's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the problem I see in sheiko ( excuse my ignorance ) is that everything is so preprogrammed that if an individual needs to work on technical or other aspects of lifting then there is no room on the template for this? and that this can lead to a lifter being reliant on a program to fix their problems rather than being able to adapt the program around their body

Preprogrammed to a point, there are afew peeps out there who have managed to "mongrelize" if you will some of the templates, dave bates being one of them adding in the Reduced Volume equipped cycles, i think Dave Dunford even tweaked it futher with lesser volume ( i believe he was carrying an injury at this time)..so there is atleast some room to make adaptations

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So over one cycle how much of it is spent at the business end 80-90%?

depends which cycle you are doing. the most common/standard prep template is #37, some others like #30 work at slightly higher %, but generally most of the work falls between 70-80 %

usually you run either 1 or 2 'prep' blocks in a row, each block is 4 weeks long. then to deaload and peak, you would run #32. so if you wanted to do an 8 weeker, youd run 37,32. or a 12weeker could be 29,37,32 etc.

sheiko 37

you keen or trollin brah?

Srs question, do you need 300level papers in algebrah to start sheik? 29-37/32 is therefore x ect.....lol nah I'm srs in my ignorance I just thought powerlifting traini g would be heavier most of the time, the whole reason I love traini g is getting to go heavy (sometimes at my detriment) so I thi k for the most part it would bore the living f*ck out of me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So over one cycle how much of it is spent at the business end 80-90%?

depends which cycle you are doing. the most common/standard prep template is #37, some others like #30 work at slightly higher %, but generally most of the work falls between 70-80 %

usually you run either 1 or 2 'prep' blocks in a row, each block is 4 weeks long. then to deaload and peak, you would run #32. so if you wanted to do an 8 weeker, youd run 37,32. or a 12weeker could be 29,37,32 etc.

sheiko 37

you keen or trollin brah?

Srs question, do you need 300level papers in algebrah to start sheik? 29-37/32 is therefore x ect.....lol nah I'm srs in my ignorance I just thought powerlifting traini g would be heavier most of the time, the whole reason I love traini g is getting to go heavy (sometimes at my detriment) so I thi k for the most part it would bore the living f*ck out of me

i reckon if you wanted to give it an honest go, but dont want to do full sheiko, just do a bench cycle - stick to it, and dont overcook your assist, and see what gains you get. if you want i can send some spreadsheets.

nah its easy as bro - the numbers are just labels for different 4 week blocks. you just put your 1rms into the spreadsheet, and it calcs everything. i just print mine off once a week. tooo easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I press like a powerlifter (tuck elbows with arch ect) ala powerbuilder. And like barbrother says 60% and 100% are like chalk and cheese I know when I test my true max it's like learn g to bench again. Is that a hard aspect to grasp?

nah.

they are different, but if your setup is consistent, thats the key. if your arch, tuck, legdrive, grip, elbows/flare is all kept consistent - then you will gain from it.

just gotta set honest 1rms - if you do a 1rm where your ass is off the bench, you bounce off your chest and touch low, then the programme wont do what its supposed to. but if you set your 1rm to a good, clean 1rm that would pass in a comp, or at least bloody close - then imo thats money..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



  • Popular Contributors

    Nobody has received reputation this week.

×
×
  • Create New...