If It Fits Your Macros

[Loochi]

i cant help but notice the obvious but the truth is in the results and seeing JR and loochi are probably some of the most ripped guys on this forum it proves that it is possible you just gota be smart with your numbers and know where to draw the line which they do and hey i have seen some depressed as guys and girls on really strict boiled chicken and brocoli diets and they just end up going on massive binges because they cant handle it and then start telling themselves they will make up for it by doing 2 hours cardio the next day lol vicious cycle! that fuks with your mind and body

look how much they weigh bro... f*ck all. they cant put on bodyfat as easily as most people, thats cool and all but i would like to see somone at 90 or 100kg ripped following this suite... i dont think it works, its unhealthy and its fuken stupid, fast foods etc doesnt build muscle unless you on drugs... i dont wanna take this debate down the drug path but it has to be metioned as it would also play a big part in keeping a junk food eating person lean

Mate, too true about our body weight being low; hence our body composition would most likely be low too.

Me and Joseph weigh f*ck all. Infact I am 10kilo's below his weight appearantly. But the sad truth is, to get in SERIOUS condition (as in more ripped than Joseph or my self in our state as of now) then mate.. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news to you.. But even YOU wouldn't be in the 90's.. Infact I'd say early 80's for you and mid 80's if I were to push it.. It's the truth bro. I'm sorry if that sounded offensive, NEVER was my intention - By the way my bro, I've been in both spectrums of being under and over weight.. If I don't watch what I eat, I can very well get out of shape or vice versa. Mate ofcourse a 90-100kg person can do it.. It's not restricted to anyone :S

Also Tom why is it unhealthy? It's in moderation mate? Like drinking?

In your perception it may seem stupid but I honestly think it's fucking genius.. If you can afford to eat a big mac or a moro bar why not throw it for sanity purposes? If you've got enough protein / fats / carbs that will help you get through your training / goals and fuel your day and have spare meal to eat something, why not have something you are craving?

My group of friends who also body build always tell me to not eat red meat during pre contest lol... why?????????? How does that affect your body composition? Still cracks me up til this day.. Or how does my shirbert fizz roll that has similar macros to my banana affect me goals? All I can think of is you'll be missing out on a few vitamins and fibre but I'm sure the rest of your diet would contain it.. I think if you try to be ALL out healthy about your diet you will most likely fail in your cut and also if you try to go all out unhealthy.

All good if you don't think highly of it, I'm going to continue to use it.. That's how I've survived this 'hard core 32 week diet' so far :pfft: - But I will say this, I won't eat 6+ meals a day, infact I eat 3-4 meals because I got better shit to do than just eat every 2 hours.. And also going to make sure I come in diced at my show so I won't need to 'drop water' which is another bullshit dogma in the bodybuilding community (sorry to say)

At the end of the day mate, I respect you and you're a genuine humble guy (to me ) and sorry if it came across as a negative post.

[tomsammce]

yeah fair enough... firstly i didnt say anything at all about MY weight stripped down being 90kg or 85 or 80 or any number so dunno why that was relevant... and a sherbet fizz roll is no where comparable to a banana, wat planet u on.. all im saying is with your body type you can eat something bad everyday and still be lean... most other body types cant do that. this is where i bought weight into it, i think someone who is bigger than you say 90 or 100kg and a different body type would struggle to get as lean as they could get eating a cheese burger everyday as opposed to not eating one. and if you bring the mental effects up saying eating that kinda stuff will stop cravings well in alot of cases its probably just as likley to make them want to keep eating, like if your mentally strong enough to have just one chocolate biscuit then arent you mentally strong enough to just not have it?... like if someone cant do a strict diet then whose to say that someone will find it easier to stop at one fizzy roll or whatever the hell that is.

anyway if it works for you thats cool, and i can see where you are coming from i just dont think the majority of things said in this thread are quite as simple as they were made out to be and wouldnt really suit the majority.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

i cant help but notice the obvious but the truth is in the results and seeing JR and loochi are probably some of the most ripped guys on this forum it proves that it is possible you just gota be smart with your numbers and know where to draw the line which they do and hey i have seen some depressed as guys and girls on really strict boiled chicken and brocoli diets and they just end up going on massive binges because they cant handle it and then start telling themselves they will make up for it by doing 2 hours cardio the next day lol vicious cycle! that fuks with your mind and body

look how much they weigh bro... f*ck all. they cant put on bodyfat as easily as most people, thats cool and all but i would like to see somone at 90 or 100kg ripped following this suite... i dont think it works, its unhealthy and its fuken stupid, fast foods etc doesnt build muscle unless you on drugs... i dont wanna take this debate down the drug path but it has to be metioned as it would also play a big part in keeping a junk food eating person lean

Lol your bro-science is strong.

fast food dosent build mmuscle lol, if it fits into your daily macros targets then it builds mmuscle just as well as oats and egg whites. Do you actually think "junk" food automatically makes you store fat? You cannot be serious..

For the record alot of bodybuilders these days follow the IIFYM rule.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

and a sherbet fizz roll is no where comparable to a banana,

If calories and macros where = then they will be exctally the same for improving body composition.

wat planet u on.. all im saying is with your body type you can eat something bad everyday and still be lean... most other body types cant do that.

Wow your way back in the 1990's dude lol, you been reading too much flex and muscle and fitness mag's.

this is where i bought weight into it, i think someone who is bigger than you say 90 or 100kg and a different body type would struggle to get as lean as they could get eating a cheese burger everyday as opposed to not eating one.

IF DAILY MACROS ARE = AND DAILY CALORIE INTAKE ARE = THEN IT WILL BE EXCTALLY THE SAME IF YOU EAT A HAMBURGER OR SOME OATS, EGG WHITES AND ALMONDS.

Do you have any idea how fat gain and fat loss occurs? Calories in VS calories out, a hamburger dosent automatically make you fat lololol, if you eat a hamburger yet you are still in a calorie deficit you will still lose bodyfat.

and if you bring the mental effects up saying eating that kinda stuff will stop cravings well in alot of cases its probably just as likley to make them want to keep eating, like if your mentally strong enough to have just one chocolate biscuit then arent you mentally strong enough to just not have it?... like if someone cant do a strict diet then whose to say that someone will find it easier to stop at one fizzy roll or whatever the hell that is.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IF IT FITS YOUR MACROS AND IF CALORIE REQUIREMENTS ARE EQUAL LOL! NOT IF SOME IDIOT DECIDES TO HAVE ANOTHER FIZZY ROLL OF CORSE IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE THEN, BECAUSE MACROS WILL BE DIFFERENT AND SO WILL CALORIE INTAKE.

Not sure if serious lol..

anyway if it works for you thats cool, and i can see where you are coming from i just dont think the majority of things said in this thread are quite as simple as they were made out to be and wouldnt really suit the majority.

It can suit anyone bro.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

So, correct me if im wrong, but once you get your "basic" proteins, fats and "good" carbs for the day (meaning once you get to your maintenance calories?) the other 500 or so calories can be of whatever you want, because you already have your, for example "200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat and 300 grams of carbs"? - Basics for muscle growth... Right?

Pretty much. What Rakich, Loochi etc. are saying is that most of your meals are going to be 'quality' protein/fat/carb sources, but once those essentials are in place it's not going to kill you to have 'bad' foods to fill in what's left (which won't be much).

Everybody else seems to take that as "eat nothing but cheeseburgers and donuts all day". Nobody's saying you don't have to cover the essentials, but the entire "clean food" thing is overstated as an influence in fat loss and leanness once those basics are handled.

This.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

@Josef Rakich Where do I start with this one, because obviously its not as clear as black and white and there are always exceptions to the rule, so it’s tricky to present a really clear argument without contradictions and that’s why some people would argue to the contrary.

let me start with a few questions...

- do you think a meat patty (comprised of ‘average quality’ meat protein, and wheat protein) cooked (seared) and in the process denatured compares to ‘easily digestible’ proteins from a ‘good quality’ whey protein isolate powder, or a raw unaltered egg?

Calories are a form of energy, you will not gain any more than than the energy supplied.

- do you think your body (your liver, your blood glucose levels, your muscles and your fat stores) treat 100 grams of low GI brown rice (high in long polymer carbon chains ‘complex carbohydrates’) the same as 20 teaspoons of refined white sugar?

No of corse not, but the effects it has on body composition are equal. You wont gain any more fat eating sugar and you wont gain any more muscle eating low GI brown rice.

- do you think that modern nutritional science is so incredibly accurate that we have not only identified every nutrient, vitamin, antioxidant and phytonutrient present in the fruits, vegetables, seeds, etc that we don’t have to eat ‘healthy’ ‘clean’ foods and simply popping a few pills and eating processed, chlorinated shit will keep our body in good balance as long as 1 + 1 = 2 when calculating our Macro’s.

Talking about body comp it will make no difference, talking about health in general maybe so.

[Darkmanx]

:pray: JR :pray: you need it

[two_phat]

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the insulin produced by 20 teaspoons of sugar be a whole lot worse for you than another carb source with a lower GI?

[Darkmanx]

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the insulin produced by 20 teaspoons of sugar be a whole lot worse for you than another carb source with a lower GI?

Just about, not to mention the epic crash afterwards.

[two_phat]

Exactly - I realize that it is an extreme example, but surely it relates to that theory anyway....if you are overfeeding yourself in terms of carbs or fats in one particular meal then your body won't be able to handle it effectively (bar those with amazing genetics).

It also seems that eating in this way would require the rest of the meals of your day to be lacking in the essentials (proteins, nutrients etc) in order for you to keep under your calorie count. Is this what you find JR - or does your eating plan still allow you to eat reasonably normally whilst still having your pizza etc?

I'm not saying that I disagree with the theory of diet, as I often eat things I perhaps shouldn't, but I definitely wouldn't be eating those foods every day....my body couldn't take it!

[Mike Zero]

Wow strong joscience.

Nothing to get too concerned about if you cheat your diet but still meets your macros. Or if you miss a meal but cram it in later. But it shouldn't be a regular occurance.

JR, if you really believe in this bollocks, when you get better why don't you do an experiment. Get all your calories in the form ov protein shakes and powerades right before bed everyday for a month and see how it affects your body composition. Also I remebered you were spouting this stuff in that thread where you posted an interview ov yourself on some website. You noted in your diet, IIRC, that you take casein protein especially before bed. If meal timing doesn't mean anything than what is the point ov this? Also why even have a PWO shake?

I think you can generally say that any studies on muscle building are bollocks. We don't know enough about the body to take anything meaningful from them nor do we have the tools to measure and control the complex processes in the body. The best thing we can do in this era ov technology is go on logic.

Look at pro BBers. These guys are obviously the kings ov building lean tissue and look how they time there meals. Most ov which eat every 1-2 hours and good quality food.

Now who should the public ov NZBB be listening to...? :wink:

[samoan_muscle]

Wow strong joscience.

Nothing to get too concerned about if you cheat your diet but still meets your macros. Or if you miss a meal but cram it in later. But it shouldn't be a regular occurance.

JR, if you really believe in this bollocks, when you get better why don't you do an experiment. Get all your calories in the form ov protein shakes and powerades right before bed everyday for a month and see how it affects your body composition. Also I remebered you were spouting this stuff in that thread where you posted an interview ov yourself on some website. You noted in your diet, IIRC, that you take casein protein especially before bed. If meal timing doesn't mean anything than what is the point ov this? Also why even have a PWO shake?

I think you can generally say that any studies on muscle building are bollocks. We don't know enough about the body to take anything meaningful from them nor do we have the tools to measure and control the complex processes in the body. The best thing we can do in this era ov technology is go on logic.

Look at pro BBers. These guys are obviously the kings ov building lean tissue and look how they time there meals. Most ov which eat every 1-2 hours and good quality food.

Now who should the public ov NZBB be listening to...? :wink:

this post makes alot OV sense.

[maassive]

Wow strong joscience.

Nothing to get too concerned about if you cheat your diet but still meets your macros. Or if you miss a meal but cram it in later. But it shouldn't be a regular occurance.

JR, if you really believe in this bollocks, when you get better why don't you do an experiment. Get all your calories in the form ov protein shakes and powerades right before bed everyday for a month and see how it affects your body composition. Also I remebered you were spouting this stuff in that thread where you posted an interview ov yourself on some website. You noted in your diet, IIRC, that you take casein protein especially before bed. If meal timing doesn't mean anything than what is the point ov this? Also why even have a PWO shake?

I think you can generally say that any studies on muscle building are bollocks. We don't know enough about the body to take anything meaningful from them nor do we have the tools to measure and control the complex processes in the body. The best thing we can do in this era ov technology is go on logic.

Look at pro BBers. These guys are obviously the kings ov building lean tissue and look how they time there meals. Most ov which eat every 1-2 hours and good quality food.

Now who should the public ov NZBB be listening to...? :wink:

this post makes alot OV sense.

it's not his fault; his keyboard has a lisp.

[ThePman]

Look at pro BBers. These guys are obviously the kings ov building lean tissue and look how they time there meals. Most ov which eat every 1-2 hours and good quality food.

Now who should the public ov NZBB be listening to...? :wink:

You have to be careful with this kind of extrapolation.

The best marathoners in the world are Kenyan. If you train how they train and eat how they eat, will you end up as a world-class runner? Will you end up built like a Kenyan, tall, lanky and ripped to shreds because you follow their practices?

Ov course not. The Kenyan marathoners are already skewed towards being really good runners -- their build is ideal for running over distance, and that's why they're good at it.

The causation is reversed -- the training and diet doesn't cause the body type, the body type leads to the training and diet.

The same applies to any sport. Top bodybuilders were already top bodybuilders before they ever touched a weight or cared about diet. That top competitors have converged towards similar practices doesn't make those practices a universal law for the general public.

[trainlikeafreak]

\JR, if you really believe in this bollocks, when you get better why don't you do an experiment. Get all your calories in the form ov protein shakes and powerades right before bed everyday for a month and see how it affects your body composition.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[tomsammce]

JR would eat anything and be lean thats just his body type... iv been there and done that i aint saying i know it all but theres not really alot to know just sayiong iv expirimented with my nutrition and i know same macros or not different foods produce different results....

[MOD EDIT: No offensive comments, please.]

[drizzt]

Lets not degrade a good, informative topic with mud slinging, guys :naughty:

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Wow strong joscience.

Nothing to get too concerned about if you cheat your diet but still meets your macros. Or if you miss a meal but cram it in later. But it shouldn't be a regular occurance.

JR, if you really believe in this bollocks, when you get better why don't you do an experiment. Get all your calories in the form ov protein shakes and powerades right before bed everyday for a month and see how it affects your body composition. Also I remebered you were spouting this stuff in that thread where you posted an interview ov yourself on some website. You noted in your diet, IIRC, that you take casein protein especially before bed. If meal timing doesn't mean anything than what is the point ov this? Also why even have a PWO shake?

I think you can generally say that any studies on muscle building are bollocks. We don't know enough about the body to take anything meaningful from them nor do we have the tools to measure and control the complex processes in the body. The best thing we can do in this era ov technology is go on logic.

Look at pro BBers. These guys are obviously the kings ov building lean tissue and look how they time there meals. Most ov which eat every 1-2 hours and good quality food.

Now who should the public ov NZBB be listening to...? :wink:

Lol dude your on the bro science.

Yes that interview which ever one it was, was probally done back when i belived in that stuff also, by the way i still use casein before bed and i still eat 6-7x per day, all im saying is it dosent matter and its not needed for body comp if cals are = and macros are =

Yes they eat every 2 hours because do you have any idea of how much food they need to consume and how much calories all up? You try fitting that into 3 meals a day.

For the record look at what Lee priest eats his diet isnt is the complete opposite to "good quality" food.

And Phil Heath he slams back his donuts.

[Calvin]

Wow strong joscience.

Nothing to get too concerned about if you cheat your diet but still meets your macros. Or if you miss a meal but cram it in later. But it shouldn't be a regular occurance.

JR, if you really believe in this bollocks, when you get better why don't you do an experiment. Get all your calories in the form ov protein shakes and powerades right before bed everyday for a month and see how it affects your body composition. Also I remebered you were spouting this stuff in that thread where you posted an interview ov yourself on some website. You noted in your diet, IIRC, that you take casein protein especially before bed. If meal timing doesn't mean anything than what is the point ov this? Also why even have a PWO shake?

I think you can generally say that any studies on muscle building are bollocks. We don't know enough about the body to take anything meaningful from them nor do we have the tools to measure and control the complex processes in the body. The best thing we can do in this era ov technology is go on logic.

Look at pro BBers. These guys are obviously the kings ov building lean tissue and look how they time there meals. Most ov which eat every 1-2 hours and good quality food.

Now who should the public ov NZBB be listening to...? :wink:

Lol dude your on the bro science.

Yes that interview which ever one it was, was probally done back when i belived in that stuff also, by the way i still use casein before bed and i still eat 6-7x per day, all im saying is it dosent matter and its not needed for body comp if cals are = and macros are =

Yes they eat every 2 hours because do you have any idea of how much food they need to consume and how much calories all up? You try fitting that into 3 meals a day.

For the record look at what Lee priest eats his diet isnt is the complete opposite to "good quality" food.

And Phil Heath he slams back his donuts.

WTFF.. Phil Heath didnt get that way by eating the above. Come on Joshit Rakich. Stop spinning shit.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Wow strong joscience.

Nothing to get too concerned about if you cheat your diet but still meets your macros. Or if you miss a meal but cram it in later. But it shouldn't be a regular occurance.

JR, if you really believe in this bollocks, when you get better why don't you do an experiment. Get all your calories in the form ov protein shakes and powerades right before bed everyday for a month and see how it affects your body composition. Also I remebered you were spouting this stuff in that thread where you posted an interview ov yourself on some website. You noted in your diet, IIRC, that you take casein protein especially before bed. If meal timing doesn't mean anything than what is the point ov this? Also why even have a PWO shake?

I think you can generally say that any studies on muscle building are bollocks. We don't know enough about the body to take anything meaningful from them nor do we have the tools to measure and control the complex processes in the body. The best thing we can do in this era ov technology is go on logic.

Look at pro BBers. These guys are obviously the kings ov building lean tissue and look how they time there meals. Most ov which eat every 1-2 hours and good quality food.

Now who should the public ov NZBB be listening to...? :wink:

Lol dude your on the bro science.

Yes that interview which ever one it was, was probally done back when i belived in that stuff also, by the way i still use casein before bed and i still eat 6-7x per day, all im saying is it dosent matter and its not needed for body comp if cals are = and macros are =

Yes they eat every 2 hours because do you have any idea of how much food they need to consume and how much calories all up? You try fitting that into 3 meals a day.

For the record look at what Lee priest eats his diet isnt is the complete opposite to "good quality" food.

And Phil Heath he slams back his donuts.

WTFF.. Phil Heath didnt get that way by eating the above. Come on Joshit Rakich. Stop spinning shit.

Im not saying he did, i dont know what his diet is like..

But im just saying you can eat anything if you fit it into your daily macros.

[jimjim83]

Lol dude your on the bro science.

Yes that interview which ever one it was, was probally done back when i belived in that stuff also, by the way i still use casein before bed and i still eat 6-7x per day, all im saying is it dosent matter and its not needed for body comp if cals are = and macros are =

Yes they eat every 2 hours because do you have any idea of how much food they need to consume and how much calories all up? You try fitting that into 3 meals a day.

For the record look at what Lee priest eats his diet isnt is the complete opposite to "good quality" food.

And Phil Heath he slams back his donuts.

WTFF.. Phil Heath didnt get that way by eating the above. Come on Joshit Rakich. Stop spinning shit.

Im not saying he did, i dont know what his diet is like..

But im just saying you can eat anything if you fit it into your daily macros.

Well you have convinced me JR a photo of Phil eating donuts. f*ck the tuna im eating a bowl of sugar washed down with some warm chicken fat. :doh:

[Andre01]

WTFF.. Phil Heath didnt get that way by eating the above. Come on Joshit Rakich. Stop spinning shit.

Im not saying he did, i dont know what his diet is like..

But im just saying you can eat anything if you fit it into your daily macros.

Well you have convinced me JR a photo of Phil eating donuts. f*ck the tuna im eating a bowl of sugar washed down with some warm chicken fat. :doh:

So your having a MacD's sundae, mmmmmmm are you going to share???

[Mike Zero]

Lol dude your on the bro science.

Yes that interview which ever one it was, was probally done back when i belived in that stuff also, by the way i still use casein before bed and i still eat 6-7x per day, all im saying is it dosent matter and its not needed for body comp if cals are = and macros are =

Yes they eat every 2 hours because do you have any idea of how much food they need to consume and how much calories all up? You try fitting that into 3 meals a day.

For the record look at what Lee priest eats his diet isnt is the complete opposite to "good quality" food.

And Phil Heath he slams back his donuts.

How am I "on the bro-science" when my post didn't make any sort ov claim what-so-ever. You are on the bro-science making these ridiculous claims with nothing to back it up. Body composition may not be affected for untrained people if the macros are the same, but body compostion is not just dependent on nutrition. Good nutrition/"clean" eating is going to affect your quality ov training which is going to in turn affect your body composition.

I'm just speculating on top ov your speculations here, but for someone big (i.e. Phil Heath) the amount ov calories to sustain energy levels to operate normally would be far less than the amount ov calories he needs to maintain his weight. Compared to someone tiny (i.e. you) once you eat enough to have decent energy levels you will be much closer to maintainance. If you ever put on any muscle you will learn that.

Also, lol:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... =135644821

[jimjim83]

Im not saying he did, i dont know what his diet is like..

But im just saying you can eat anything if you fit it into your daily macros.

Well you have convinced me JR a photo of Phil eating donuts. f*ck the tuna im eating a bowl of sugar washed down with some warm chicken fat. :doh:

So your having a MacD's sundae, mmmmmmm are you going to share???

It would take alot ov semen to get your daily intake ov protien Andre thats a good thing right?

[trainlikeafreak]

Wow strong joscience.

Nothing to get too concerned about if you cheat your diet but still meets your macros. Or if you miss a meal but cram it in later. But it shouldn't be a regular occurance.

JR, if you really believe in this bollocks, when you get better why don't you do an experiment. Get all your calories in the form ov protein shakes and powerades right before bed everyday for a month and see how it affects your body composition. Also I remebered you were spouting this stuff in that thread where you posted an interview ov yourself on some website. You noted in your diet, IIRC, that you take casein protein especially before bed. If meal timing doesn't mean anything than what is the point ov this? Also why even have a PWO shake?

I think you can generally say that any studies on muscle building are bollocks. We don't know enough about the body to take anything meaningful from them nor do we have the tools to measure and control the complex processes in the body. The best thing we can do in this era ov technology is go on logic.

Look at pro BBers. These guys are obviously the kings ov building lean tissue and look how they time there meals. Most ov which eat every 1-2 hours and good quality food.

Now who should the public ov NZBB be listening to...? :wink:

Lol dude your on the bro science.

Yes that interview which ever one it was, was probally done back when i belived in that stuff also, by the way i still use casein before bed and i still eat 6-7x per day, all im saying is it dosent matter and its not needed for body comp if cals are = and macros are =

Yes they eat every 2 hours because do you have any idea of how much food they need to consume and how much calories all up? You try fitting that into 3 meals a day.

For the record look at what Lee priest eats his diet isnt is the complete opposite to "good quality" food.

And Phil Heath he slams back his donuts.

its called a cheat meal bruh